OK so this happened just down the road from me, in an area where I cut my teeth drinking as a young lad and I’ve played countless gigs. Now Lewisham can be a pretty rough area with constant low level violent crime and sporadic bursts of shocking violence- a double shotgun murder seconds from my house, an automatic weapon fight in Brockley (where I have just moved from), or some poor girl being found in a number of bin bags in a car park in Catford are some of the first things to spring to mind.

But, as shocking as the linked story is, Lewisham is by no means isolated- there have been a recent spate of youth killings in Peckham/Southwark, a young lad was killed to great notoriety a few days ago in Islington, Nottingham is (was?) constantly referred to as ‘the gun crime capital of Britain’ and, from my own (associated) experience I know that there’s some awful knife crime in Glasgow. Again, these are just off the top of my head.

My question is- do you think that there is an actual increase in violent crime in Britain, or is it just the increase in the reporting of it?

I’m not attempting to stir up any Clocker Bob style rowing or idea of a media conspiracy, I just honestly don’t know.

Also, see how far we can get into this without someone using a racially divisive term like ‘black on black violence’.

yes it is and it often doesnt seem like that because of laws affecting the publication and punishment of crimes, particularly knife crimes, of under 16's. i think we should just round up these people and fucking kill them.

useless wastes of time, devoid of morals that frankly make sense to any intelligent brain. seriously, fucking kill them.

Tommy Alpha wrote:OK so this happened just down the road from me, in an area where I cut my teeth drinking as a young lad and I’ve played countless gigs.

This one seems to be so exceptional that it can't be taken as a barometer of violent crime levels; there's an oddness to it that takes it out of the wider culture. Also:

Ferez's sister Hélène, 19, described the moment... she told the Guardian in a Facebook message yesterday

Uh, what?

As for increased levels of violent crime... I don't know. I'd like to say it's just being over-reported at the moment, but I don't know.

daniel robert chapman wrote:

Tommy Alpha wrote:OK so this happened just down the road from me, in an area where I cut my teeth drinking as a young lad and I’ve played countless gigs.

This one seems to be so exceptional that it can't be taken as a barometer of violent crime levels; there's an oddness to it that takes it out of the wider culture.

Oh sure, it just spurred my thinking- this wasn’t necessarily an indicator of such possible increases. But violent crime seems more and more prevalent in the news. It also seems that a lot happens that is scarcely reported on save the occasional bit on ‘Crimestoppers’ style programmes.

You can add my uncle to your list of London's victims of savage violence.

There is undoubtedly an awful lot of media interest in street-violence now but sometimes an increased media campaign can make it appear that violence is on the rise. I think I heard somewhere that violent crime rates were down in England/The UK?

I really don't think that theres been any seismic shift in the amount of violence overall, though seemingly the youth of Britain have taken to knives in a big way.

Interesting you mentioned Glasgow. My Da was attacked and stabbed in Glasgow, but that was in the late 1960's. Knife-crime was invented about 5 minutes after the first knife. I see violence of this sort as a constant in society.

Do you honestly feel less secure/more vulnerable now than you did five years ago?

It's being shoved right up to the top of the news at the moment, despite the fact that it's apparently only a few over the same number of incidents this time last year.

Having said that, one of the most frequently repeated tenets of the Disarming Britain thing on telly the other night was that not only are people more likely to carry weapons, they are more likely to use them. Some kids, the third or fourth generation growing up in the same blighted areas are reduced to violently defending their own turf because basically they have nothing else worthwhile and 'dignified' to do.

Heeby Jeeby wrote:I think I heard somewhere that violent crime rates were down in England/The UK?

That's often quoted but I think the picture johnnyshape paints above is valid too and there's a skew - within a certain demographic you're running a much greater risk of being stabbed than you were ten years ago but the overall number of violent crimes reported is down.

An obvious thing to say but media coverage definitely has an affect on the perception of crime - I grew up in the 80s with cases like Ripper investigation and there was a real sense that sexual assault by a stranger was a very real risk when it was/is (thankfully) still quite rare.

That said, the Co-op in the sleepy village in Lincolnshire where my folks live was subject to an armed robbery a couple of months ago, absolutely unprecedented. UK used to mean United Kingdom, but ask anyone today and they'll tell you it stands for Unbelievable Krimewave.

True. What hapened to your uncle (from what little I know of the situation) was disgusting. Hows he doing now?


In one sense, no I don't feel any more or less safe than I did five or six years ago. There were awful things going on then, just as now. Most of the reporting of violent crime seems to be either the horrific (New Cross) or tied to age/race/gangs which don't apply to me. A few weeks ago I was mugged by a crack head rudy on my bus home. This hasn't made me any more or less scared of black youths- the simple fact, aside from issues of racism, is that I can't afford to be or I would never leave my house. In actual fact I'm often more wary of white youths.

But I've always felt that most violent crime seems to go on above and below 'ordinary people' anyway, most of the time being related to criminal activity, so it would be no real indicator- both incidents of guns I mentioned earlier were related to gang related/organized crime. Either that or rather exceptional circumstances like someone just going spare and knifing a load of random people in a frenzied attack, which isn’t something you can account for or live your life in fear of.

So my feeling on my own safety is no real indicator either...

It’s also interesting to hear about your dad- I have no knowledge of knife crime in Glasgow other than my friends boyfriend almost being killed and the apocryphal stories of ‘knife gangs’ I heard as a result.

cjh wrote:UK used to mean United Kingdom, but ask anyone today and they'll tell you it stands for Unbelievable Krimewave.

I think its because the perpetrators / victims are of a younger age, society and the media are generally more likely to react, so these crimes get more publicity. That doesn't mean I don't think things are getting worse. If the youth are getting more and more violent, then that does indicate some kid of moral decay. Also with the prisons overcrowded, therefore sentances are shorter, so there is less of a deterrent.
Ive seen the way these kids act, and things are changing. I was working security on a large retail site last year, and shoplifters just dont give a fuck about getting caught anymore, they know they'll just get a slap on the wrist or at worst, a short sentance for repeated offending. We thwarted some kids before they could rob one of the supermarkets, and they walked out loudly proclaiming 'You can't shoplift anywhere these days, we're off to the other store across town, theres no security there, haha.' Not violent crime I know, but it is an indicator of the way things are going I think.