I'm not sure Dimebag or Jerry Cantrell would have used wah pedals were it not for Kirk Hammett. They can work well when used as an envelope filter like Michael Schenker.

uglysound wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:58 pm Black Album: Cliff is truly gone, nobody has talked to Jason Newstad since the $5.98 EP, and for some reason Bob Rock is here. Not only are they still making videos, but every video now features an old man lost in some underground structure, shot in black and white of course.

I felt it was somewhat unfair to ignore the commercial elephant in the room when talking about this topic, but take Bob Rock's collosal sound out of the picture and the Black Album is one weird, stiff record, like an 'authentic' take on the Def Leppard formula. For one of "the best rock albumz of all timez", doesn't actually rock very much, the mid tempo riffs are boring and expose Lars's inadequacies... does anyone really like it, I wonder?

I do. I think it's a totally solid, meat and potatoes, big rock record. It's not something I'd reach for often, but my first reaction to most of it would be to put my foot down, rather than change the station.

Both bands are for people with large trinkets on their keychains.

M.H wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:33 am I felt it was somewhat unfair to ignore the commercial elephant in the room when talking about this topic, but take Bob Rock's collosal sound out of the picture and the Black Album is one weird, stiff record, like an 'authentic' take on the Def Leppard formula. For one of "the best rock albumz of all timez", doesn't actually rock very much, the mid tempo riffs are boring and expose Lars's inadequacies... does anyone really like it, I wonder?

To me it's a classic example of something overrated by the mainstream, but too violently thrown in the bin by the more discerning crowds.

Hetfield's rhythm guitar playing is vivid and clear. There's a reason many of my generation learned guitar from some of those riffs, they're memorable and solid. I think if I'd been 19 instead of 9 when it came out I'd have seen it as their cheesy downfall, but instead it's kind of their last decent album.

losthighway wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:27 am

M.H wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:33 am I felt it was somewhat unfair to ignore the commercial elephant in the room when talking about this topic, but take Bob Rock's collosal sound out of the picture and the Black Album is one weird, stiff record, like an 'authentic' take on the Def Leppard formula. For one of "the best rock albumz of all timez", doesn't actually rock very much, the mid tempo riffs are boring and expose Lars's inadequacies... does anyone really like it, I wonder?

To me it's a classic example of something overrated by the mainstream, but too violently thrown in the bin by the more discerning crowds.

Hetfield's rhythm guitar playing is vivid and clear. There's a reason many of my generation learned guitar from some of those riffs, they're memorable and solid. I think if I'd been 19 instead of 9 when it came out I'd have seen it as their cheesy downfall, but instead it's kind of their last decent album.

Right. Metallica 'AC/DC-ified' their sound, which is something that kinda worked once and was hard to deny in that moment of time. Like Nirvana, it sounded bigger and heavier than 99% of what was on the radio.

Once they got so huge that 'One' and to an extent 'Master of Puppets' became revived radio hits, the whole world got to hear the true Metallica and no one but the lame rockin' uncle-types ever went back to TBA.

losthighway wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:27 am I think if I'd been 19 instead of 9 when it came out I'd have seen it as their cheesy downfall

I was 21 and yep, it was very disappointing.

Looking back at it now, (and just ignoring any "hey if we simplify our riffs and hire a big shot producer we could get really super rich" motivations) I can totally see where after playing the AJFA songs on tour for two years, the band (Lars especially) would sincerely want to play some simpler, "groovier" kind of songs. It's perfectly reasonable.

I'd much rather listen to that than any Pantera or AIC. That said, "would?" is a fucking jam, great chorus and nice taco riff at the end. "No excuses" is nice too, flowery drumming aside.

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 am "No excuses" is nice too, flowery drumming aside.

haha, yes! All the '90s cliches are there: tight popping snare and tiny rack tom, hibachi grill hi hats, splash cymbals.. it's like they brought in the Pearl Jam guy to play on it.

Pretty icky direct acoustic-electric guitar too, and yarling of course, but other than all that a not terrible song!

Re: the Black album:

My 13-year-old daughter "likes metal".

She does not like any Metallica before the Black album.

She loves the Black album.

That seems to explain a lot about that album... its accessibility, and its influence on metal since then.

Personally, I don't hate the disc, but if I'm going to listen to Metallica, it's going to be something from before that album.

jfv wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:13 pm ^ That photo of Pantera reminds me of the fictional band Cheap Girls from the film The Money Pit.

Meryl Streep