tmidgett wrote: to compete with the ltd spectrum of heavy metal, she is maybe more fair.

So the politically effective heavy metal... does she exist?

gio wrote:

tmidgett wrote: to compete with the ltd spectrum of heavy metal, she is maybe more fair.

So the politically effective heavy metal... does she exist?

uh...no?

is that the right answer?

big_dave wrote:the punk/hiphop comparison is pretty lame though, i cant imagine two forms of music more different in terms of their overall form & 'work ethic'.

Try watching Style Wars and Dogtown and Z-boys back to back, and you'll be amazed by the parallels between the birth of hip hop and the birth of punk/skater culture--at least in the U.S. The prevalence of graffiti, the attempts to rescue some function from stifling urban landscapes, even some similarities in modes of dress. Oh yeah: and early hip hop sampled many of the same funky early 70's tunes that pre-punk guttersnipes grooved to. When I heard that one of the most popular hip hop rhythm tracks was a Thin Lizzy drum break, it all started to fit together.

tmidgett wrote:i prefer the sex pistols to public enemy, as i prefer punk rock to hiphop. but i think the evidence (certainly _nation of millions_ and _black planet_) suggests very strongly that public enemy and the bomb squad were innovators on the level of the first punk bands.

The first time I heard It Takes a Nation of Millions..., my initial thought was that this was the rowdiest, angriest music I'd heard since the Sex Pistols. And the first time I heard Eminem, I thought, "Here's the new Johnny Rotten--the angriest man alive."

So there you have it, folks: Sex Pistols + Public Enemy = Eminem.

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:Sex Pistols + Public Enemy = Eminem

Sex Pistols + Public Enemy + Eminem = A grand total of about two people who can actually play a musical instrument

RANK!!!

Sex Pistols
Public Enemy
Eminem

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:RANK!!!

Sex Pistols
Public Enemy
Eminem

Hey, you guy, I make these rank! She is difficult a little bit, because I am to "discovering" the Pistol and PEs around same time! I have 11 or 12 years old at this time, and these thing make the "impression" on me! So good.

1. Public Enemy: So many the noises for to be in structure of, how you say it, "pop song"? The musics mostly are made by "found" noise and some music sample! So great and beautiful, these noise! The vocal, so nice for the "command" of Chuck D and Flavor Guy to make the funny saying. I am to see these Publics Enemy as high school guy two time; 1995 and 1996. Live, is also making the great show! I am to love these guy like few other music guys.

2. Sex Pistols: So beautiful! Is maybe to sound like Dolls of the New York, but she is no the bad thing. Almost all of these songs of Pistol are so great that I am to remember them after hearing for one times only! John Lydon is so great for the sing, but he is better in PIL (for the sing, and for the musics), who I put above the PE in Rank long times ago. WTF? Sex Pistols, you are #2 in these rank, and for making the one very good record.

3. Eminem: Hey, I am not to care so much for these "shocks value". She put me to sleep. These musics, not so interesting like P.E. or Pistol. The subject matter, I am not caring about. The "rapping flow" of Eminem is good, but the words are boring! Also, for to making the song with sample of Aerosmith (she is worst band for all times!) is CRAP! History will not judge you kindly, Eminem!

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:Sex Pistols + Public Enemy = Eminem

Sex Pistols + Public Enemy + Eminem = A grand total of about two people who can actually play a musical instrument

so true! so great, the folk music of america and great britain!

RANK!!!

Sex Pistols
Public Enemy
Eminem

sex pistols, for they revolutionize rock music by to make so dirty the chuck berry riffs and inspire with the hateful songs about hating life and people! maybe they came after whatever, stooges and alice cooper and ny dolls, but wtf, they made the punk possible in no small part. so sexpisol no. one.

public enemy, for to groundbreak in the rap music, when they have also to made, in breaking the ground, so huge a mountain with matching crater that no one can seem to climb it so much.

eminem, for i like his funny raps! like the one to kill his wife or rape his mother. so funny. and so good with the rap, it is almost like to sing. eminem, maybe now you are bad, i don't know. but the three record i have, they make me laugh and i think they are good music. so good for you.

I'm still reading Fake Italian for Dummies, so I'll keep this Rank in my normal tone.

1. Public Enemy. Leading off with a Groundbreaking Record ("Yo"), they follow it up with a Landmark Record ("Nation of Millions"), then the Total Fucking Godhead Record ("Fear of a Black Planet") and another Landmark Record ("Apocalypse 91"). That's 4 essential records in 5 years before they start to slide. Plus touring EVERYWHERE, more then any hip hop act before or since, other then maybe The Roots.

2. Sex Pistols. One Total Fucking Godhead Record followed by...nuthin' but a wet fart in "The Great R&R Swindle" and the cash-in BS tour a couple years ago.

3. Eminem. Nuthin' but a wet fart, period.

steve wrote:

gio wrote:Did anyone say rock politics weren't ridiculous?

Who is the rap-political foil to Bono? Surely not Chuck D! Certainly neither of Ice T nor Cube!

You're right. None of them have successfully lobbied for the forgiveness of third-world debt, brought water, food and sanitation projects to Africa or forced national leaders to confront their responsibilities publicly. You're right, they're not in Bono's league.

Bono's sin is his art, not his political will or effort.

This is an absurd statement, applauding Bono's zipping around the earth trying to guilt politicians into writing checks for the world's problems, while he lives like a king. Until he lives on the yearly income that I do, you do, and a lot of other hardworking people do, and uses his own millions to help a few (probably a lot of) settlements in Africa or wherever, then I will grant that he is using his "rock status" to help people.

And I hope no one posts how wonderful Bono his because he gave X dollars to charity this year or whatever. That doesn't hurt him one damn bit, all it does is help his PR and his conscience. People with little money have a hard time paying their taxes, let alone making major charitable contributions.

I once read that Ralph Nader lives on a $25,000 yearly income or something, and that he walks everywhere and lives in a tiny apartment in DC or something (read it a long time ago). This is what I am talking about. I am far from a Ralph Nader fan politically, but I can respect a guy like that, who can surely command a good salary for speaking engagements or through his business activities, but choses to "walk the walk" and live an average existence.

Although our average, or even near-povery level existence in the US is surely far better than in some third-world nations.

As you were,

Chris

crm0922 wrote:I once read that Ralph Nader lives on a $25,000 yearly income or something, and that he walks everywhere and lives in a tiny apartment in DC or something (read it a long time ago).

from wash post, 2000:

After 35 years of bashing big business, rumpled Ralph Nader is worth at least $3.8 million and is heavily invested in technology stocks.
[...]
Nader said he gives away more than 80 percent of his after-tax income.

Nader is left with a net worth of at least $3.8 million, including $1.2 million in stock in Cisco Systems Inc., which makes Internet plumbing. He owns smaller amounts of five other technology-related stocks and has more than $2 million in two money-market funds. He lists no debt.

He estimated that he has made $13 million to $14 million in royalties, honoraria, interest income, and writing and television fees beginning in 1967.
[...]
Nader, 66, who is single, said he has made $200,000 to $300,000 a year just on speeches for 30 years. Income from writings, television appearances and interest is on top of that. But he said he does not take a salary from any of his groups and lives on just $25,000 a year.

sounds like he's getting what he wants out of life

this strikes me as somewhat pathological:

He last owned a car (a '49 Studebaker) in the late '50s. He went years without a television set but now has a tiny black-and-white; reception is an adventure. He rents an apartment near Dupont Circle and often stays at the family home in Winsted, Conn. He writes his books on what he calls a "perilous" Underwood typewriter. He keeps meaning to buy a new ribbon.