I just went tubeless for the first time on my Masi Giramondo. Treated myself to handmade 40mm Challenge Gravel Grinders to replace the ludicrously heavy and stiff Kendas the bike came with. Wow wow wow. Night and day. This is not a light bike but it feels like a jet now. I've done several long rides including anywhere from 20-40 miles of gravel with no flats, no problems, nothing. They can run as low as 25 psi and are so comfortable.

My other "nice" bike is a Jamis Quest and I've had 28mm gatorskins on that forever. I am seriously considering a switch to Challenge but they'd have to be clinchers as the wheels are not tubeless ready and I'm not buying a new wheelset.

Has anyone done loaded touring on a tire like the gravel grinder (low pressure, tubeless, supple)? I'm curious if they can take the weight or if you need a stiff sidewall once the total weight hits a certain point.

penningtron wrote: Wed Jul 30, 2025 7:52 am Ended up getting a Cannondale Topstone 3.

Only got in a couple miles on it last night but so far it's a blast. Uphills are a breeze compared to what I'm used to, I don't spin out going downhill now (which is great and slightly scary), and having the option of taking the grassy/dirt route to avoid lollygaggers on the path is great. I ended up going with this over the equivalent Journeyer (carbon fork, tubeless ready wheels) because that was $400 more, and Salsa's color options were awful.

I might eventually look into sportier endurance wheels if I start doing more 50+ mile road rides, but this will get me thru winter commuting for sure (which I do unless there's a wall of snow and ice).

That looks spectacular. Is that Microshift Sword? If so, how do you like it?

joelb wrote: Mon Aug 18, 2025 4:44 pm Has anyone done loaded touring on a tire like the gravel grinder (low pressure, tubeless, supple)? I'm curious if they can take the weight or if you need a stiff sidewall once the total weight hits a certain point.

How loaded? I've done long days out with supplies one extremely supple tires with no problems.

In my experience, there's no disadvantage to using supple sidewall other than risk of slash/damage. For weight, just use the Silca tire pressure calculator and put in the whole system weight. I guess there's a chance that the pressure required might be higher than what the tire is rated for.
https://silca.cc/pages/pro-tire-pressure-calculator

Nothing has improved my cycling experience more than wider tires and lower pressures. Fast road, brevets/randonneuring, and gravel; it is a benefit for all of them.

benadrian wrote: Tue Aug 19, 2025 10:38 pm That looks spectacular. Is that Microshift Sword? If so, how do you like it?

For the most part yes, free of fuss and my monkey brain appreciates simplicity. The downside with 1x shifting is approaching hills (from either side) means a lot of click click clicking, where one big shift would be nice. It doesn't get too annoying in this region, but I could see it being a problem in a choppier landscape.

benadrian wrote: Nothing has improved my cycling experience more than wider tires and lower pressures. Fast road, brevets/randonneuring, and gravel; it is a benefit for all of them.

It's kind of warped my brain a little. I was taught many years ago that max-filled tires was the way to avoid flats, which has worked pretty well but then I just accepted the stiff ride was part of the experience. It's no longer necessary on wide tubeless tires, and the cushiness feels almost indulgent!

Do you tubeless guys top off your own tires? Supposedly they dry up faster than I realized (every 3-6 months?) but with removable valve stems, it seems DIY-able. I have a stand and a track pump.

penningtron wrote: Wed Aug 20, 2025 7:13 am It's kind of warped my brain a little. I was taught many years ago that max-filled tires was the way to avoid flats, which has worked pretty well but then I just accepted the stiff ride was part of the experience. It's no longer necessary on wide tubeless tires, and the cushiness feels almost indulgent!

There's a two part reply to theing from me.

About 10 years ago, the cycling industry really started to look at cycling efficiency with a more holistic view. I think the advent of relatively cheap, personal power meters helped kick this off. It used to be that they would put a tire on a smooth drum and run a rolling resistance test. Of course, high pressures win for rolling resistance on a perfectly smooth surface. The real world is bumpy, and the harder the tire, the more it bounces around on the road. High tire pressures cause the tire to briefly lift and reconnect with the road surface, and that adds rolling resistance. Reducing the pressure causes the tires to deform over the little bumps, and the bike can cross rough terrain more smoothly.

Yes, there's is an increased rolling resistance from lower tire pressure, but it turns out it about the same as the increased rolling resistance from the micro-vibrations of the higher tire pressure. Over the years, people associated the micro-vibrations and road chatter with "the feeling of going fast". So, tires with lower pressure don't feel as fast to a lot of people, but tests with power meters show similar effort. As a side benefit, the micro-vibrations are tiring for the rider. Elimination the vibrations can make the rider perform better. So, in many endurance cases, lower pressure is the same effort to move the bike, and less tiring in the long run from pneumatic suspension.

Point 2: flats. Hard tires would prevent pinch flats with inner tubes. That's not a thing with tubeless. However, harder tires are more likely to get a flat with road debris. If you run over a piece of glass wit ha hard tire, the glass will often cut into the tire. You can think of the high pressure as "fighting back" against the ground. With wider tires and softer pressure, the tire conforms to the ground and the debris. If you run over a piece of glass, the tire will give and the pneumatic suspension will absorb some of the force of the glass pushing into the tire. Lower pressure tires receive less damage from sharp or semi-sharp debris. Nothing is impenetrable, but I've had WAY fewer flats on the road since lowering my tire pressure; tube or tubeless.

penningtron wrote: Wed Aug 20, 2025 7:13 amDo you tubeless guys top off your own tires? Supposedly they dry up faster than I realized (every 3-6 months?) but with removable valve stems, it seems DIY-able. I have a stand and a track pump.

I try to check every 6 months. I remove the pressure, pull the core, and use something as a dip stick; zip tie, log and thin allen wrench, etc. In a perfect world, the tire beads don't come off the lip of the rim, and re-inflation is just like if you had a tube inside. If the tires and rim are compatible, you should be able to seat them with a floor pump.

I had SO MUCH problem with tubeless, but it was a comedy of errors for me. First, I had rims that weren't REALLY tubeless compatible. Then, my favorite tire brand (Panaracer and companied who use Panaracer for OEM) was the brand that is notoriously hard to set up tubeless. I got some Teravail tires for my gravel bike about 18 months ago. I put them on, pumped them by hand, and "POP!", they set right on. They even held air overnight with no sealant. I added sealant the next day, of course. I was just curious. Some brands just works better. Schwalbe and Teravail have always hopped right on. Specialized Mondo was super easy as well. Vittoria and Panaracer, amazing tires, but a struggle for tubeless in my non-professional garage.

BIKES!

benadrian wrote: Tue Aug 19, 2025 10:45 pm

joelb wrote: Mon Aug 18, 2025 4:44 pm Has anyone done loaded touring on a tire like the gravel grinder (low pressure, tubeless, supple)? I'm curious if they can take the weight or if you need a stiff sidewall once the total weight hits a certain point.

How loaded? I've done long days out with supplies one extremely supple tires with no problems.

In my experience, there's no disadvantage to using supple sidewall other than risk of slash/damage. For weight, just use the Silca tire pressure calculator and put in the whole system weight. I guess there's a chance that the pressure required might be higher than what the tire is rated for.
https://silca.cc/pages/pro-tire-pressure-calculator

Nothing has improved my cycling experience more than wider tires and lower pressures. Fast road, brevets/randonneuring, and gravel; it is a benefit for all of them.

I put in my numbers and even with 50 lbs of gear (which I am unlikely to ever hit) it says 45 psi is fine. The Gravel Grinders max at 45. It's just so much lower than I'm used to as a max that it weirds me out a bit, but going with it.

Always ridden stout tires (e.g. Marathon) on my city/touring bikes and never gave sidewall damage a second thought. Hopefully it won't be an issue, so far so good. I do need to learn how to plug a hole in a tubeless tire though.

Definitely leaning toward ditching the gatorskins on my road bike now.

This is all making me feel like a luddite.

I'm just riding the stock tires on my Giant Revolt on gravel. It seems ok to me.

The real project is going to be getting this thing going:

Ozone Park, NY?!

Looks like you'll probably be able to get parts, at least: http://www.worksman.com/most-popular.html

dontfeartheringo wrote: Wed Aug 20, 2025 4:09 pm This is all making me feel like a luddite.

I'm just riding the stock tires on my Giant Revolt on gravel. It seems ok to me.

It's a recent bike. Those are probably solid tires.

Ben

benadrian wrote: Wed Aug 20, 2025 11:35 amI had SO MUCH problem with tubeless, but it was a comedy of errors for me. First, I had rims that weren't REALLY tubeless compatible. Then, my favorite tire brand (Panaracer and companied who use Panaracer for OEM) was the brand that is notoriously hard to set up tubeless. I got some Teravail tires for my gravel bike about 18 months ago. I put them on, pumped them by hand, and "POP!", they set right on. They even held air overnight with no sealant. I added sealant the next day, of course. I was just curious. Some brands just works better. Schwalbe and Teravail have always hopped right on. Specialized Mondo was super easy as well. Vittoria and Panaracer, amazing tires, but a struggle for tubeless in my non-professional garage.

BIKES!

Oh yeah. I'm perfectly happy to pay the $50 for the initial setup because they do such a clean job and support LBSs etc. But if topping them off is basically like checking your antifreeze then I'll give it a shot.

I'm about to take it out, and I'm tempted to go a little lower than I'm mentally comfortable with (40psi.. why not!)