Re: Politics

6771
zorg wrote: Tue Jan 06, 2026 8:02 am
losthighway wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 9:53 pm I personally know Venezuelans who celebrate his downfall.
Oh, but this is very typical. The Miami Cubans hate the commies, the old guard Mexican-American's resent the illegals. This was the entire reason it is so convenient that a Trump endorsed Venezuelan opposition leader won a Nobel Peace Prize.
Lu Zwei wrote:
zorg wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 3:46 pm That's before we review the storied history of European imperialism which still defines the world today, including famously the history of Croatia and the British hand in bringing Tito to power.
This is a really bad attempt at revisionist history and if you say this with a straight face to anyone over here, people will make fun of you.

We do learn our and world history over here really seriously. For grades and shit.
This was just a very reductive sidebar from my point, so I can drop it, but yeah, the UK was backing Tito when he served value to them, much like the US backs all sorts of juntas when it is to their benefit, and I would with full confidence say to anyone in former Soviet block states that the victorious European forces had a detrimental effect on their lands after WWII.
Just in terms of eyes on the ground, an awful lot of Venezuelans took to the streets of NYC in support of this—in the freezing cold, mostly in the working-class outer boroughs. Most of them seemed like newer immigrants, so not like old guard Mexicans or whatever. (The irony being that Trump's immigration policy would just as soon deport every single one! I do have to laugh a little.) To be fair, the antiwar demonstration in Times Square looked mostly like a trickle of old white people and students. Life is funny that way.

On one hand, what's happening in Venezuela is shocking in its brazen stupidity. On the other, it's not. This is just a return to the same old Monroe Doctrine, filtered thru the Great Game, but updated for the social-media-and-crypto era. (Look at me, world! I'm extracting a president and taking the oil I believe is rightfully mine b/c I'm in the same general zip code.)

The irony is that the Monroe Doctrine was largely abandoned under Bush I in favor of focusing on the Middle East. And, one could argue, what's happening in Venezuela isn't so different than Russia using its military to artificially prop up Assad in Syria for all those years. It's way more shameless, but just as cynical. Possibly even less
brutal for the local population, depending on how or even if Venezuela responds.

Again, this is what superpowers have done forever. I don't condone it in the least, but it's not particularly unique to America, as Russia's actions in Central Asia and Eastern Europe plus China's (slightly more suave) actions in Southeast Asia have attested over the decades. The US just tends to blunder stuff a little more loudly and has been a relatively crappy chessmaster since Vietnam.

Re: Politics

6772
And people can celebrate the downfall of an enemy even if they’re totally clear-eyed about what will follow it.

If Trump shat himself to death tomorrow, I would drink champagne. And if some condescending twat started to lecture me about how bad the Vance administration will be, I’d tell him to fuck off and let me have my moment.

Re: Politics

6773
Josip Broz Tito was the fucking man. Anyone who can keep the wolves at bay - Nazis, Russia, capitalist scourge - and hold onto a unified nation (that split into six different countries along the lines of ethnonationalism) did the job better than anyone in the 20th century. Show me another commie state with a rock scene comparable to Yugoslav new wave - you ever heard the plod of Polish post-punk?

Anyways, Stephen Miller went full "might makes right" in a CNN interview. It's Berlin 1939 in the White House right now, and it's impossible to tell the difference between bluster and a full-blown threat. Ya gotta take these morons at their word.

Re: Politics

6774
OrthodoxEaster wrote: Tue Jan 06, 2026 8:34 am
zorg wrote: Tue Jan 06, 2026 8:02 am
losthighway wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 9:53 pm I personally know Venezuelans who celebrate his downfall.
Oh, but this is very typical. The Miami Cubans hate the commies, the old guard Mexican-American's resent the illegals. This was the entire reason it is so convenient that a Trump endorsed Venezuelan opposition leader won a Nobel Peace Prize.
Lu Zwei wrote:

This is a really bad attempt at revisionist history and if you say this with a straight face to anyone over here, people will make fun of you.

We do learn our and world history over here really seriously. For grades and shit.
This was just a very reductive sidebar from my point, so I can drop it, but yeah, the UK was backing Tito when he served value to them, much like the US backs all sorts of juntas when it is to their benefit, and I would with full confidence say to anyone in former Soviet block states that the victorious European forces had a detrimental effect on their lands after WWII.
Just in terms of eyes on the ground, an awful lot of Venezuelans took to the streets of NYC in support of this—in the freezing cold, mostly in the working-class outer boroughs. Most of them seemed like newer immigrants, so not like old guard Mexicans or whatever. (The irony being that Trump's immigration policy would just as soon deport every single one! I do have to laugh a little.) To be fair, the antiwar demonstration in Times Square looked mostly like a trickle of old white people and students. Life is funny that way.

On one hand, what's happening in Venezuela is shocking in its brazen stupidity. On the other, it's not. This is just a return to the same old Monroe Doctrine, filtered thru the Great Game, but updated for the social-media-and-crypto era. (Look at me, world! I'm extracting a president and taking the oil I believe is rightfully mine b/c I'm in the same general zip code.)

The irony is that the Monroe Doctrine was largely abandoned under Bush I in favor of focusing on the Middle East. And, one could argue, what's happening in Venezuela isn't so different than Russia using its military to artificially prop up Assad in Syria for all those years. It's way more shameless, but just as cynical. Possibly even less
brutal for the local population, depending on how or even if Venezuela responds.

Again, this is what superpowers have done forever. I don't condone it in the least, but it's not particularly unique to America, as Russia's actions in Central Asia and Eastern Europe plus China's (slightly more suave) actions in Southeast Asia have attested over the decades. The US just tends to blunder stuff a little more loudly and has been a relatively crappy chessmaster since Vietnam.
You'd feel more sympathy for a burning vineyard than a bombed out capital city, wouldn't you?

Re: Politics

6775
gotdamn wrote: burning vineyard
To answer your most-likely-rhetorical question: um, no.

But that's a damn good band name!
gotdamn wrote: Show me another commie state with a rock scene comparable to Yugoslav new wave - you ever heard the plod of Polish post-punk?
Some very cool stuff, but way, way too much light, playful ska-influenced crap and synth pop in the Yugo scene. That said, (early) Disciplina Kičme, SCH, TKP, Sexa, and a handful of other outliers were all incredible. Buuuuut... the state-run Jugoton record label wasn't exactly throwing its weight behind any of them and in some cases, that company was outright boycotting and making life hard for them. For my capitalist-pig cash, none of the above (maybe Sexa?) were as quite as startling and powerful as Hungary's (banned by the state for eight or nine whole years!) still-kicking-and-great Vágtázó Halottkémek.

Re: Politics

6777
Frankie99 wrote: Tue Jan 06, 2026 9:37 am
PURE GRAND RAPIDS, BABY.

Sucks so bad. I was out in Kalamazoo that same day (with a group of peaceniks here called KNOW, a long-standing group of anti-war folks that date back to like the 50's) and we were met with cheers of encouragement. One redneck flipped us off. There were about 50 of us or so.

Grand Rapids is a shithole. Conservative wet dream up there masaquerading as an enlightened city.

Re: Politics

6778
Every single "American" should be screaming for the release of that woman; few will.

Some have been screaming for decades. Alas, our devolution to fascism is happening in plain view, and we're worried about an alleged "criminal" in another country and whether imperialism is justified.

I fear we're fucked, friends.

Re: Politics

6779
Frankie99 wrote: Tue Jan 06, 2026 10:13 am Every single "American" should be screaming for the release of that woman; few will.

Some have been screaming for decades. Alas, our devolution to fascism is happening in plain view, and we're worried about an alleged "criminal" in another country and whether imperialism is justified.

I fear we're fucked, friends.
They've been released. I think in for a little over 24 hours if my rudimentary math is correct. Absolute police-state shit to the hilt.

The NPR types aren't gravitating towards this one as I thought they would around here, too. Don't think it made local news even?

Re: Politics

6780
Isaac wrote: Tue Jan 06, 2026 10:15 am
Frankie99 wrote: Tue Jan 06, 2026 10:13 am Every single "American" should be screaming for the release of that woman; few will.

Some have been screaming for decades. Alas, our devolution to fascism is happening in plain view, and we're worried about an alleged "criminal" in another country and whether imperialism is justified.

I fear we're fucked, friends.
They've been released. I think in for a little over 24 hours if my rudimentary math is correct. Absolute police-state shit to the hilt.

The NPR types aren't gravitating towards this one as I thought they would around here, too. Don't think it made local news even?
Steve Bannon’s loathsome “flood the zone with shit” strategy means that incidents that would’ve ended other administrations or caused widespread protest can’t even stay in the news for more than a few minutes.

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