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connor wrote:Tolstoy gets no love!

rayj wrote:Maybe this thread should diverge over to "recommend some Tolstoy"...

The Kreutzer Sonata will give you a class-A mindfuck, if you're anything like me. Seriously, read it today.

I can see how one would hand the cake to Dostoevsky, but Tolstoy was a far superior writer.

Dostoevsky. But I like Gogol better than either.

rayj wrote:Maybe this thread should diverge over to "recommend some Tolstoy"...

I haven't read War and Peace. But I can't recommend Resurrection and Anna Karenina highly enough.

Many of the key aspects of a traditional novel- a palpably thorough evocation of a particular time and place, an exploration of the motivations and interior lives of the novel's characters, a few crucial, memorable scenes which serve as powerful culminations of what has built by the novelist throughout the work- Tolstoy was about as masterful as any novelist I can think of at delivering these things. Particularly the first one I mentioned.

What you won't find are the 'experimental' flights of invention like the "Grand Inquisitor" section of Brothers Karamazov.

(You know, I really dislike these x vs. y "thunderdome" threads, where two artists are compared.)

Tolstoy also wrote some brilliant short fiction. If you are daunted by the size of novels like Anna and War and Peace, look into it. I particularly recommend "Family Happiness" and "The Death of Ivan Illych."

rayj wrote:

Eierdiebe wrote:i don't think Dos. is misanthropic. if anything he lieks people ("most people") too much.

Usually that is the case. 'Misanthropy' is the symptom. Celine is a shining example of this, even through the interpretations...

i think i know what you're getting at, but could you explain a little further? i had something to say about this but i'm not entirely sure what you mean.

thx.

Angus Jung wrote:What you won't find are the 'experimental' flights of invention like the "Grand Inquisitor" section of Brothers Karamazov.

is that the poem Ivan wrote? i had the impression that it was badly written on purpose.

I can't get enough Dostoevsky. I've read quite a few of his books and now I'm reading different translations and older editions of what I've already gone through because there are surprising variations from one to another. There are so many layers in these stories that a once over doesn't even scratch the surface... it's mind blowing that a single human being can produce so much exquisite work over such a short period.

Sadly, I haven't read any Tolstoy so I'm not able to add much to this debate. From what I understand though comparing one to the other is kind of like comparing the Louvre to the Hermitage... sure there are important differences but both represent mankind's ultimate potential.

Dostoevsky. Notes from the Underground, The House Of The Dead. 'Twas the shit.

Eierdiebe wrote:

rayj wrote:

Eierdiebe wrote:i don't think Dos. is misanthropic. if anything he lieks people ("most people") too much.

Usually that is the case. 'Misanthropy' is the symptom. Celine is a shining example of this, even through the interpretations...

i think i know what you're getting at, but could you explain a little further? i had something to say about this but i'm not entirely sure what you mean.

thx.

I mean that what we usually see as misanthropy is a deep-seated sense of frustration and disappointment. You don't feel something that strongly if you truly don't care. In a very general, nebulous sense, hatred and love stem from the same source: namely, giving a shit.

i'm going with gogol since (funny i was just reading this last night in some 1917 modern library book thingy with a bunch of russian short stories) evidently the russian literature we all know and love and feel depressed about wasn't that until gogol's "the cloak?" prior to that it was boring pushkin? granted, this is 1917 information i am getting here, but it sounds pretty good to me. otherwise, dostoevsky all the way.