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Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:58 pm
by M_a_x_Archive
tocharian wrote:syntaxfree07 wrote:Why are you here?
To gang up on someone who has different ideas about music from Steve Albini whenever he throws a little tantrum about something.
Now you're just pouting. I know a lot of us differ with Steve on things which come to some interesting discussions (don't want to open a can of worms but the song vs performance ideal is one easy one that springs to mind).
No, your problem is not differing with Steve Albini. It's that you're nuts and not a little pretentious.
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:04 pm
by tocharian_Archive
M_a_x wrote: It's that you're nuts and not a little pretentious.
Woah. How am I nuts?
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:11 pm
by M_a_x_Archive
tocharian wrote:M_a_x wrote: It's that you're nuts and not a little pretentious.
Woah. How am I nuts?
tocharian wrote:Anyway, I keep waiting for someone to post a stunning defense of rock as art. Anyone...
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:29 pm
by tocharian_Archive
Rick Reuben wrote:tocharian wrote:Anyway, I keep waiting for someone to post a stunning defense of rock as art. Anyone...
Your challenge is dumb. You are the only person grading these defenses.
No. You can make an argument that rock is art or rock is kitsch or rock is camp or rock campy art. People have been making these kinds of arguments for centuries and they've been very instructive.
I don't buy this "anything with sound" is art because it's music stuff. Societies have standards for art and I think it's kinda fun to talk about what those standards are.
Ok.
Cuz it's fun.
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:31 pm
by syntaxfree07_Archive
tocharian wrote:syntaxfree07 wrote:Why are you here?
To gang up on someone who has different ideas about music from Steve Albini whenever he throws a little tantrum about something.
You can't even form a proper sentence when you aren't regurgitating the ideas of other people.
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:53 pm
by M_a_x_Archive
tocharian wrote:Rick Reuben wrote:tocharian wrote:Anyway, I keep waiting for someone to post a stunning defense of rock as art. Anyone...
Your challenge is dumb. You are the only person grading these defenses.
No. You can make an argument that rock is art or rock is kitsch or rock is camp or rock campy art. People have been making these kinds of arguments for centuries and they've been very instructive.
Oh yes, let us not forget the words of Pope (from 1709):
Some beauties yet no precepts can declare,
Where there's kitschiness as well as care.
Rock resembles poetry--in each
Are nameless graces which no methods teach,
And which a master hand alone can reach
If, where Campness not far enough extend
(Since rules were made but to promote it's end),
Some affectation answer to the full
The intent proposed for Sontag's rule.
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:01 pm
by o_d_m_Archive
Just getting around to reading the article tmidgett posted and I think I found it interesting for a completely different reason. (Sorry to change the subject)
I didn't even bother listening to the music. (Wasn't what interested me.)
What caught my eye was his willful avoidance of shows, DJ spots and all the other stuff that usually goes along with making music.
As someone who doesn't like playing shows, touring, or 90% of the other crap involved with making music other than the actual creation of music with friends for our own enjoyment, I have to say this approach appeals to me.
Is it a put on by the artist? I don't claim to know. I hope not.
What do you think?
Sorry if this has already been discussed. My eyes glazed over after Sontag came up.
Burial's Music: Probably CRAP
His Attitude Towards Fame and Attention Seeking (As I understood it): NOT CRAP
P.S. It is 100% possible to play shows and sell records and still be wonderful people and credible artists. (duh) My opinions about music making and everything that goes with it are mine and should in no way be interpreted as saying "no one should ever play shows or any of that other crap." It is only saying "I don't like playing shows and all the rest and I find it fascinating that someone else would actually agree with this sentiment."
Edited to clean up some sloppy sentence writing.
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:32 pm
by tocharian_Archive
steve wrote:tocharian wrote:Lame. Still waiting.
For what? You're clearly not open to being wrong in your preconceptions, even those received from Susan Sontag.
Um, Sontag wasn't writing about rock. She was writing about camp. That's like saying fuck you and your received ideas about freedom from John Stuart Mill.
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:42 pm
by busbus_Archive
Colonel Panic wrote:Actually, you're right. My notation is incorrect.
"Rock" is not absolutely equal ("=") to "Art" (some art is not rock). "Rock" is a genre, or
subset ("⊆") of "Music". Likewise, Music is not absolutely equal to "Art" (some art is not music). "Music" is a form, or
subset ("⊆") of "Art".
The proper way to express it would have been:
Code: Select all
Rock ⊆ Music;
Music ⊆ Art;
therefore: Rock ⊆ Art.
or:
Get with the program, tocharian!
Hey Colonel, why waste the CPU cycles? It's the transitive property. You and I both learned it a while back in our respective grade schools.
Musical concern: Burial
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:32 am
by Minotaur029_Archive
Just so you know, tocharian is very nice, and very reasonable.
I don't know how she can list all rock music under non-art...especially because she enjoys it a great deal/knows it intimately...I think she's just tired of it (she's been a part of that culture since she was very young). I'm always amazed by the stuff she knows (that I don't) about the occasional ART FORM that I enjoy so thoroughly.
Perhaps tocharian has been overly confrontational (or has appeared that way), but please remember that this is only a message board.
She's new in town...and while she might rather go to the symphony, she's no elitist. See you all around...