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Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:42 pm**

Skronk wrote:I'll be roadie/tech/merchandise guy if you promise to cover "Moonchild".

Done and done. I'll throw in "Chord Of Souls" just cuz it's awesome.

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:44 pm**

Marsupe and I recorded a somewhat '70s rock -styled song last night. Let's all get together and play soon. Maybe tonight? What are you doing tonight?

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:44 pm**

Rick Reuben wrote:
jimmy spako wrote:
Rick Reuben wrote:There are always ulterior motives promoting any ideology.

you see ideology where others see simply common decency & mutual respect, because, clever as you can often be, the latter two concepts still seem to be utterly foreign to you.
You don't get it. Where does the definition of 'common decency' come from? It comes from those who have appointed themselves to define it. Instant ideology. From there, how is it enforced? By ideologues.

If not being asshole is an ideology then fucking brushing your teeth is. You are doing a disservice to discours. Oh wait.

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:47 pm**

I get a kick out of people saying I'm trying to limit their freedom of speech by telling them that some particular talk smacks of racism. Nobody around here is trying to legislate speech.

But If you're really unable to recognize that it's wrongheaded and offensive to bring somebody's race into a common neighborly dispute, then don't be too surprised when you start having all kinds of trouble with your non-white neighbors. Be sure to act all superior and point out how they all behave just like animals.

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:10 pm**

Rick Reuben wrote:
sunlore wrote:If not being asshole is an ideology then fucking brushing your teeth is. You are doing a disservice to discours. Oh wait.
You don't get it. Where does the definition of 'asshole' come from? It comes from those who have appointed themselves to define it.

No it comes from a sense of not going out of your way to offend others casually. And it comes from a sense that people that do offend others casually are assholes. You could probably measure it, like with questionnares and stuff.

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:22 pm**

Marsupialized wrote:'This piece of shit watch never works right'

How about "This piece of shit Timex"?

Marsupialized wrote:'This piece of shit pizza is fucking disgusting'

"This piece of shit Stouffer's Pizza"

Marsupialized wrote:'This piece of shit car keeps breaking down'

"This Piece of shit Ford!"

Et cetera. It takes on a slightly different meaning, when you get more specific, doesn't it?

And remember, all those things are inanimate objects (or foodstuff), not human beings with families and heritage and and perceptions and personal experience to consider.

Rick Reuben wrote:If you are trying to use peer pressure to control what is allowable speech, then you are acting to restrict speech. Obviously, if your interest wasn't in controlling speech, you wouldn't be making posts telling us why it needed to be controlled! If you were only interested in making that decision on what to listen to for yourself, then you wouldn't post your opinion on a public forum- you would just tune it out. You are not reacting to free speech. You are acting against free speech, by taking an advocacy position on a public forum.

Using peer pressure? What the hell is this, the fourth grade? We're all adults here, at least chronologically.

I support your right to say whatever you want, no matter how offensive it may be, but having the right to do something doesn't mean it's necessarily the best thing to do, or that it is not a bad idea. All I'm saying is, before you open your big mouth, you ought to realize how others are going to perceive you because of what you're saying. That is, if you even care about such things. I personally happen to care about how I appear to my neighbors. I have to live among them, so I feel that the ideal situation would be for us to all be friends and not let our cultural/"racial" differences come between us.

You can go around spewing as much hyperbolic, idiotic, hateful nonsense as you like. You can try and justify insensitive racially inflammatory speech, though I don't understand what possible good can come of it. All I'm saying is, you ought to realize that many people are going to perceive you to be an hysterical, unreasonable, hateful person. You obviously have no problem with that, so that's fine for you. But those of us who don't have a bug up our ass about the whole of society, and would like to have real friends and meaningful interactions with others, then we choose to filter our verbal output in such a way as to avoid offending other people and alienating ourselves from others.

It's as simple as that.

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:38 pm**

Rick Reuben wrote:
sunlore wrote:it comes from a sense of not going out of your way to offend others casually.
But what you're describing is the total opposite of the situation that prompted this thread. Mandroid was not walking down the street, casually insulting Mexicans she had never met before. She insulted a Mexican she had been dealing with for a week. I see no reason to believe that she was not simply insulting the individual, and not his entire ethnicity.

Josef K wrote:
Do you know Mandroid?

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:45 pm**

Rick Reuben wrote:
Josef K wrote:
Rick Reuben wrote:
sunlore wrote:it comes from a sense of not going out of your way to offend others casually.
But what you're describing is the total opposite of the situation that prompted this thread. Mandroid was not walking down the street, casually insulting Mexicans she had never met before. She insulted a Mexican she had been dealing with for a week. I see no reason to believe that she was not simply insulting the individual, and not his entire ethnicity.

Josef K wrote:
Do you know Mandroid?

Are you unable to read the post that Horuss used to start the thread?? In what way was Mandroid 'going out of her way to casually offend Mexicans'? She insulted one Mexican, who had been in her yard for a week.

Sorry, formatted poorly.

Do you know Mandroid?

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:53 pm**

Rick Reuben wrote:I'll give you a chance to clarify your position: Do you believe that a person who does not vocally condemn what Mandroid said, in the situation that she said it in, is therefore sympathetic to racism? Or, do you think it is possible that a person would not condemn Mandroid because that person values free speech more than he feels a responsibility to tell others how they should talk?

Well geez, Tom I'm at a loss for words to express my gratitude for your magnanimosity in granting me one opportunity to clarify my position!

Howabout "Fuck you"?

In answer to your question: No, I don't think that person would necessarily be racist or sympathetic to racism. There might be any number of reasons for their neglect or decision to participate in this discussion.

I just think it's really ignorant and pointless to try and pretend that invoking somebody's race while calling them a piece of shit or whatever is not going to offend their sense of racial identity. People who come from certain minorities have grown up with what they perceive to be a stigma in society because of their race. Mexican Americans are often assumed to be illegals, they are commonly stereotyped as having a low standards of living and being fit only for doing low-paying jobs... while not necessarily true, these stereotypes have caused a stigma. Are you going to deny this?

When some white person yells, "You Mexican piece of shit!" how do you expect them to take it? Of course it's going to be perceived as racist. I bet I can go out on the street right now and interview 10 people of all nationalities and races, and at least 8 out of 10 would agree with me that such language is a racial slur. I am certain that 100% of Mexicans I talk to would.

So where's this "peer pressure" you're talking about? The peer pressure to identify offensive racist belligerence when you see it? Dude, you really need to get back on your meds. You're grasping at straws here for something to argue about.

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:00 pm**

Randall when you were at my house in Oregon and I said you were the first black person I had seen in months you didn't take that as a racist statement did you? Because the butt of that joke was whitebred Oregon.

It's just something I've seriously worried about from time to time since then. This seemed like a good place to ask.

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