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Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:28 pm
by zom-zom_Archive
wes9 wrote:Early Devo...check out "Hardcore Devo, Vol.1, '74-'77."
Truly some of the best sounds and amazing performances. DEVO does not get the props they deserve for the early stuff. Seeing them live in 1978 almost killed me. Amazingly tight, loud and hard.
Steve mentioned 6FS, brilliant.
Early Ultravox! too.
Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:50 pm
by same_Archive
Has no one mentioned Wire yet?
154 and Chairs Missing have some great synth/guitar stuff on them.
I think Second Edition by PiL has my favorite rock oriented synth work of all time though. Buy it! Now!
Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:51 pm
by zom-zom_Archive
I'd like to include Stranglers, in spite of Mr. Greenfield's propensity for noodling...
Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:57 pm
by galanter_Archive
rayj wrote:I picked up an old Korg MS-20. If you patch the headphone out back into it (via any CV, but 'total' is always fun), you get really aggressive sounds, especially with the ring modulator. It works as a guitarish sound, with more ugly mess. It also gets more difficult to control...
Basically, distorted analog synths. Hard to go wrong with a MiniMoog into an SVT. You will know when you hit all the sounds you want to hate instantly. Take a little time to tweak the programs/settings, and you can go from lame disco to horrifying mess fairly quickly.
Yep. Some synths have distortion modules built-in now, and software like Reaktor has distortion DSP options as well. You really need to have some animation in the signal before it goes to the distortion though or the result will be very static (unchanging) even though distorted.
Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:03 pm
by galanter_Archive
Maurice wrote:galanter wrote:Does anyone want to try to generalize from these examples? Are there arranging pointers or timbral rules of thumb for mixing synths and guitars hard and good?
I guess I'd say let the synth be a synth, and not (say) a fake flute or fake sax or fake violin or whatever. Like in Ubu, Allen Ravenstine's use of the EML-101 was to create these very industrial sounds (as in "sounds of industry," not like the genre that's become known as "industrial")--hisses like steam pipes, geiger counter crackles, end-of-shift-at-the-mill whistles, sounds that might come from a bank of electronic test equipment. The synth can then be harsh and powerful in its synth-space, while the guitar can be powerful in its way, and there's no confusing the two. Difficult-to-control analog synths (particularly modular synths) seem good for this purpose, maybe because the old ones wouldn't stay in tune very well, so players who didn't want to keep tuning would have to do things other than play melodic lines. Also, ring modulation is your friend.
The first ring modulator I ever used was in an Arp 2600...in 1972!
I'm a synth geezer...
I have to say, though, I've been working with some software synths that are really impressive. It's possible to add in analog-like inaccuracies. I know some feel like there's nothing like the real analog thing.
Given an unlimited budget I'd love to have a room full of modulars. But given a limited budget something like Reaktor is, IMHO, a best buy.
Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:04 pm
by rayj_Archive
I have played the MS2000, and fucked around with all the emulators...own a MicroKorg, etc. If you are looking for genuinely interesting sounds, you can spend lots of time programming new synths...or, you can plug in an MS-20/Arp Odyssey/Moog whatever old monosynth and start losing control right off the bat. No stepping in the controls...you can overload parts of the synth and get sounds you will NEVER get through emulation...and you can also write off ever being able to get the same sound twice. Room temperature, gain structure, power supplies, etc. all contribute to a certain built-in necessary improvisation with the thing. I don't necessarily have anything against digital synthesis, but...just like in the recording world, they are a different animal entirely, and not always as useful/pleasing/etc.
Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:10 pm
by galanter_Archive
Rimbaud III wrote:galanter wrote:Or (perhaps this is easier) are there things that one should avoid?
Sweeping pads. Well, ANY pads really. String sounds too. And orchestra hits. Keep yer flippin' paws off the frappin' arpeggiator too.
Barking dog effects are okay though.
Mostly agreed...those who like the Who's use might not want to ban arpeggiators...also arpeggiators driving oscillators which then go into ring modulators might make you think twice...lots of rapid fire kling-klang!
Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:11 pm
by rayj_Archive
By the way, I would cut 4 years out of my life to have seen Devo in 1978, or any other year in the 70's. The live recording of them opening for the Dead Boys...where they get noticably geekier as the tuffguy audience harangues them...is priceless.
Mixing synthesizers and guitars - who does it HARD and well?
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:44 pm
by jvan_Archive
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