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"I flew acrost the flat to punch you in the genitals whilst eating Taco Bell."

I take issue with "whence." Unless you are a wizard. It sounds normal when wizards use it.

Jon

A word such as acrost
Can't be a word at all
Really, you must kid!
Of course it's news to me
Shut your lying trap
Titchy mcGrew!

Barbo wrote:I take issue with "whence." Unless you are a wizard. It sounds normal when wizards use it.

Jon

I have mixed feelings on "whence." It used to serve a purpose. There was Whence/Whither/Where, Hence/Hither/Here, Thence/Thither/There. The first in each group is used with movement from, the second with movement to or toward, and the third with stationary existence.

Part of me thinks they're still viable English words, and part of me thinks that they have left the language.

"From whence" I don't like. If "whence" means "from where," then "from whence" is obviously redundant. "Go back whence you came" is just fine, assuming "whence" is still a part of our language.

Rotten Tanx wrote:A word such as acrost
Can't be a word at all
Really, you must kid!
Of course it's news to me
Shut your lying trap
Titchy mcGrew!

Still yourself and
Hear me speaking
Undeniable truth:
Tanx!
Your young eyes should show
Old(e) Mssr Chopjob is the culprit here
Sending forward snob's snot like" acrost"
Either retract your accusation
Freeing my good name -or-
Unsheathe your sword, so we might all
Point and laugh from the windows of the "shoppe".

Excitable young maiden
From that land o' guns and burgers
Free yourself from the burden of desire

Your love is not unrequited
Oh but we must wait til the night of our nuptials
Unsheathe my sword, indeed

enframed wrote:"who" is the subject
"whom" is an object

i think that's how it works

If my Latin and German grammar serves me well, I think it's to do with the dative case and depends on the word preceeding it being a preposition, mostly in subject/object arrangements. In my experience, Americans tend to overuse the word "whom": "The man, whom you saw..."

Prepositions = to, with, by, from, under, over, after, opposite, on

Maybe I'm wrong. Correct me if so.

Back to while: When automatic barriers were first used at level crossings in Lincolnshire (UK), they were accompanied by the sign "Wait while barriers closed". As someone noted above, northern England speakers used while to mean until, so hilarity ensued as tractor drivers waited for the barriers to come down before trying to cross the railway line.

Signs were changed, I think. Or people were killed and eventually the stupid were wiped out.

Possibly.

Or something.

Dunno.

floog wrote:

enframed wrote:"who" is the subject
"whom" is an object

i think that's how it works

If my Latin and German grammar serves me well, I think it's to do with the dative case and depends on the word preceeding it being a preposition, mostly in subject/object arrangements. In my experience, Americans tend to overuse the word "whom": "The man, whom you saw..."

Prepositions = to, with, by, from, under, over, after, opposite, on

Maybe I'm wrong. Correct me if so.

You're somewhat right, but basically wrong. Your list of prepositions is accurate (though incomplete), but objects in English do not only follow prepositions. English combines the dative and accusative cases into the objective case, which is used for objects of all prepositions and verbs. The example you give, "The man whom you saw..." is actually correct, because whom is an object of the verb "saw," even though no preposition appears.

I have seen misuse of "whom," but the example you give is not an example of it.

The best way to tell whether to use "who" or "whom" is to try to substitute it with "he" or "him," or "she" or "her," inverting the phrase or clause if necessary.

So: "The man who you saw..." is correct if you would say "You saw he" or "You saw she," while "The man whom you saw..." is correct if you would say "You saw him" or "You saw her." "Whom" wins.