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never tried the graphics fuzz, by transistory do you mean it brakes up transistory? I just got a fender blender, that thing could kill people I swear, it's fucking awesome to crank all 4 knobs and just rape your guitar.

Yeah, I like my hot tubes (mine has GT 12AX7-M's in atm, less noise more warmth), I wanna try some other distortion pedals though because I want a bit more cream in my coffee.

Do tube pre pedals really make that much difference? I've been reading some articles recently about hybrid guitar amps with tube pre's just being a bunch of lies as the 'valve tone' comes from the all important power tube saturation. The pre stage distortion is pretty much identical whether you use transistors or valves and thinking about all those great sounding transistor distortion pedals, that makes sense to me.
I read a paper a while ago on whether the average person could hear the difference between a (hifi) valve amp and a solid state amp. I can't remember what they were using but the general conclusion was once you get passed a certain price point where the amps are 'properly' designed, most people really couldn't tell the difference between the two when tested blind, but their preferences often changed dramatically with one sounding clearly better than the other after they could see the amps. Not sure of the relevance of that here but I thought it was interesting

Jose Luis Perales wrote:

alex maiolo wrote:

Jose Luis Perales wrote:it is loud enough for gigs? 15 watts..

(my fender pro junior is 15 watts, 10 inch speaker, and is NOT enough)

It's loud enough for practice or a small gig. You can mic it up and play a small stage with it and still hear yourself. A larger space if you pump it through a 4x12.

Remember, these Class A things are super loud. Ask anyone with a Vox AC30.
My other amp is an AC30 clone and I usually run it in 15w mode.

Don't be fooled, 15w can be very, very loud.

-A

didnt know the difference between class A and class A/B. if will search some info about that...
i played in small stages (100people) with the fender pro junior and it was usable but the drummer had difficulty hearing it for example. and i played a VOX AC30 and indeed it was ridiculously loud. so, the tiny terror with , say, a 1x12 cab will be loud more similarly to the vox ac30 than my pro junior right?

Well, the Pro Jr is 15watts (right?) and the AC30 is 30watts. The Tiny Terror is 15watts, but...um..."different" watts from the Pro Jr., for simplicity's sake.
So, the comparison would best be made between the TT and your Pro Jr, not with the AC30. The TT is sorta like a half power version of the AC30.

Also for simplicity's sake, plug into a solid state 30w amp, then plug into that AC30 and you'll see the "watts differenc" in about 10 seconds.

Here's some stuff about amp classes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier

Also, board member Scott is an invaluable resource for stuff like this. I bet a search in the Tech Room will find many posts on this subject.

A 1x12 will be very loud. A 2x12 will push more air. It will be louder, and just as important, *seem* louder and more spatial.
Using the TT to drive two cabs or just a 2x12 will probably get you loud enough to do most things, certainly practice, and it'll get through any gig where you can mic up the amp.

In the latter case, this is a great amp because soundmen often bitch that the guitar is too loud, and spoils the house mix. They'll tell you to turn down, and when you do, the amp loses it's dynamics. I like my Matchless because I can practice in 15 or 30w mode, as needed, but run it in the 15w mode at a gig, which allows me to turn it up loud enough to drive it, but it's still quiet enough to allow the soundman to mix me properly, if that makes sense.
With the TT, if I want real balls in a small space, I can switch it to 7w, and CRANK it. I'll get the dynamics of an amp pushed to the brink, but the soundman won't complain about stage volume. Haven't done that yet, but I bet it will come up one day.

Concerning that:
For a short while, I played with a guy who had to turn his Fender Twin up to 5 to get "his sound."
The rest of us were spread out over the PA nicely, but he was so low in the mix, due to his stage volume, that he was barely in the monitors. The left side of the stage was just a wash of him, whereas the right was almost absent of his parts.
Plus he was a dick.

Hope all of that helps.

-A

PS- 100 people? That's not so small. Nice work, man. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've been in a band that outnumbers the crowd. These days I'm playing to 50-150 people and I'm super pleased about it.

the old ones: not crap
the new ones: CRAP: way too expensive like the new HIWATTs, bad quality, endorsed by groups built around casting show winners, orange tolex cannot justify the price for a 4x12 cabinet loaded with v30s.

Noodles wrote:Do tube pre pedals really make that much difference? I've been reading some articles recently about hybrid guitar amps with tube pre's just being a bunch of lies as the 'valve tone' comes from the all important power tube saturation. The pre stage distortion is pretty much identical whether you use transistors or valves and thinking about all those great sounding transistor distortion pedals, that makes sense to me.

the hot tubes are tube overdrive. I don't see the point of adding a tube pre pedal either.

re: the graphic fuzz being too "transistory": I don't know how to describe it better. maybe it's just shrill. It still sounds good, but even with the 5 band fuzz EQ, I can't get it to sound like the fuzz on the jackson 5's "ABC".

that would be so great.

Noodles wrote:Do tube pre pedals really make that much difference? I've been reading some articles recently about hybrid guitar amps with tube pre's just being a bunch of lies as the 'valve tone' comes from the all important power tube saturation. The pre stage distortion is pretty much identical whether you use transistors or valves and thinking about all those great sounding transistor distortion pedals, that makes sense to me.

Not exactly--yes, what people think of as tube amp tone involves the whole signal chain: preamp tubes, power tubes, output transformer, speaker cone. Any one of these or (more commonly) all of them distort in different ways. In terms of sound coloration, output transformers are overlooked compared to tubes, but affect the sound just as much if not more.

That said, I'd think some tube pre pedals can make a difference. Kerble likes the EH Hot Tubes, and I'm fond of the tone of my EH LPB2ube (though I'm not so fond of its build quality). Note, however, that both pedals have decent voltage on the plates of the tubes, as opposed to much low-cost "tube" gear that runs, say, a single power tube with some anemic plate voltage, giving you a mushy, farty caricature of tube tone.

Solid state gear can sound great as well. The key is how well the circuit is designed.

Oh, and to get back on topic, that TT seems like it'd be awesome.

Maurice wrote:That said, I'd think some tube pre pedals can make a difference. Kerble likes the EH Hot Tubes, and I'm fond of the tone of my EH LPB2ube (though I'm not so fond of its build quality). Note, however, that both pedals have decent voltage on the plates of the tubes, as opposed to much low-cost "tube" gear that runs, say, a single power tube with some anemic plate voltage, giving you a mushy, farty caricature of tube tone.

Solid state gear can sound great as well. The key is how well the circuit is designed.

I know that, the question is whether the tube pedals genuinely give you a sound you can't get with transistors, or whether it just sounds nice. I would suspect the latter. Not that it proves anything much of course.

sick.bird wrote:the old ones: not crap
the new ones: CRAP: way too expensive like the new HIWATTs, bad quality, endorsed by groups built around casting show winners, orange tolex cannot justify the price for a 4x12 cabinet loaded with v30s.

completely wrong. just ask the pro's who have tried all Oranges through the ages and see what they say. Then compare other amps in the same price range and over.

No orange tolex cannot justify that, maybe thats why the wood build does, tit.



The cool thing with the hot tubes is that you can mess around with different tubes to get different sounds and qualities out of the pedal. that's partly why I like it anyway. And I'm pretty sure it functions a little differently to how a transistor version would.

Apparently transistor rectifiers are better then rectifier tubes.

z00york wrote:Apparently transistor rectifiers are better then rectifier tubes.

That's a pretty vague comment. Better at what? Rectifying? Or just cheaper and much smaller? Nothing wrong with rectifier tubes in tube amps dude.

z00york wrote:No orange tolex cannot justify that, maybe thats why the wood build does, tit.

so let's see:

AVATAR:
"We sell them factory direct to musicians at extremely affordable prices. We also have the best prices on many individual Celestion speaker models. We don't advertise because our customers advertise for us. All six sides of the cabs are made of sturdy Birch plywood with rabbet and dado interlocking side joints for extreme strength.
G412 Vintage Tolex
Many Celestion Choices!!
$488"
that's not their cheapest cabinet, you can get 4x12 cabinets for $378, loaded with all kinds of celestions.


ORANGE:
"The Right Materials
Durability aside, the obvious advantage of denser materials is to aid in thickening your amplifier's sound and improving speaker projection. Orange cabinets feature an 18ply birch plywood shell. The Right Design Orange's unique "skid" design helps to acoustically couple the cabinet to the stage. The advantage? Better definition and bass response."
Celestion Vintage 30
lots of endorsers
$939

difference: orange logo and $451.

tit.