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steve wrote:Kraftwerk weren't about anything. Their enigmatic presentation implied a lot, but the records and the music were actually pretty superficial. Unique, original and intriguing, but almost content-free.

How can you say after praising the Ramones for littering their music with cultural references from a marginalised group of people (dirt poor English speaking kids), when Kraftwerk did exactly the same for a different marginalised group of people?

Kraftwerk made themselves Kraftwerk, and then made music about being Kraftwerk.

Kraftwerk can't be accountable for the fact that the majority of their audience would miss the lyrical nods and musical references. The Ramones likewise have an "enigmatic" appeal to many, many people for the same reason. The Ramones didn't intend UK and French hipsters to listen to their music and Kraftwerk didn't intend for American funk listeners to go crazy for Autobahn.

For every instance of the Ramones' music embodying something of the Ramones as a group of people, I could find you a direct equivalent in pre-bullshit Kraftwerk.

big_dave: Übermenschine.

big_dave wrote:

Voting 'Kraftwerk' just because Florian Schneider looks cooler than all the Ramones combined doesn't count.

yesterday, I got my two year old nephew to sing the chorus for "Man Machine," over and over and to also shout "Gabba Gabba Hey!" when he wants to watch the excellent show, Yo Gabba Gabba!.

I had forgotten about this thread entirely while doing this.

apparently, you can have it all.

Very difficult poll. Both bands affected me immensely when I first heard them, and I still love both.

I must go with Kraftwerk, however. Waffle Factor of 10.

I think it boils down like this:

If you chose the Birthday Party in the BP vs. JD poll, you chose the Ramones here.

If you chose Joy Division in the BP vs. JD poll, you chose Kraftwerk.

Kraftwerk was a big influence on Joy Division.

My sister made my three-year old niece a comp to keep her occupied in the car. Her favorite song (the niece, not the sister)? "I wanna be sedated."

Listening to a three-year old sing this is one of the best damn things ever.

Kraftwerk.

The Ramones, without question. Kraftwerk doesn't even come close.I like Kraftwerk quite a bit, but there is no way that they've ever come close to writing a tune anywhere near as good as on the first four Ramones records.