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AAAAAAAARGH wrote:Not a rhetorical question. I seriously mean to ask: why are those considered the best rappers/rap groups also the most famous? Wu Tang, Nas, Pete Rock, whatever. All these guys sell tons and tons of records and are pretty much unanimously considered Greatest of All Time candidates. Why isn't there a "indie rock" version of hip hop (or at least one that's considered any good)?

In my mind, it's because indie rock has a middle to upper class audience. There's an element of ownership in indie rock and an element of liking acts a lot less if it is accepted by the masses, mainstream media, and/or corporate America. Working class audiences don't really mind an artist is doing something that is commercially fulfilling. No one really holds it against Jay-Z for doing Budweiser commercials, or Method Man for doing deodorant ads. But in rock there's an undeniable frowning when a Fugazi song is played during a football game or when songs by the Who or the Beatles can be as easily associated with consumer products and TV shows as their original artistic purposes as songs.

Hip Hop has audiences right now are from the lower class, working class, middle, and upper class. The best artists (and a lot of really bad ones) get a lot of mainstream attention and radio play. I'd argue that rock fans who efficiently keep up with the best of new music typically need a computer and a lot of non-mainstream sources of information to stay on the ball.

And my main theory behind this is that middle and upper class audiences of rock create a notion of ownership involved with their musical taste.

Actually, does anyone remember that whole hip-hoppy scene back in the 90's...out of Texas, I believe...pretty much based on drinking codeine-laden cough syrup? LOADS of 'melting' pitch-shifter vocals, very cool and wacky. I only heard it on an NPR episode, and couldn't find a single album (the whole scene was mostly circulated home-brew cassette stuff). I'm kicking myself for not making more of an effort to get some product out of the few tracks I managed to hear. I can't even remember any names.

rayj wrote:Actually, does anyone remember that whole hip-hoppy scene back in the 90's...out of Texas, I believe...pretty much based on drinking codeine-laden cough syrup? LOADS of 'melting' pitch-shifter vocals, very cool and wacky. I only heard it on an NPR episode, and couldn't find a single album (the whole scene was mostly circulated home-brew cassette stuff). I'm kicking myself for not making more of an effort to get some product out of the few tracks I managed to hear. I can't even remember any names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopped_and_screwed

Richard wrote:

rayj wrote:Actually, does anyone remember that whole hip-hoppy scene back in the 90's...out of Texas, I believe...pretty much based on drinking codeine-laden cough syrup? LOADS of 'melting' pitch-shifter vocals, very cool and wacky. I only heard it on an NPR episode, and couldn't find a single album (the whole scene was mostly circulated home-brew cassette stuff). I'm kicking myself for not making more of an effort to get some product out of the few tracks I managed to hear. I can't even remember any names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopped_and_screwed

Hey! That is so very much it! Thanks!

New Kingdom are a hip hop group that seem to have dropped off the map, which is a shame as they were ace. I listened to Paradise Don't Come Cheap for the first time in about a decade the other week, and I felt stupid for not having listened to it in the interim.

It's a very bizarre record, heavy, full of very distorted soul, wah wah, general guitar noise, and growling vocals. The beat makes it hip hop, I guess, but it is stuff that's gone gonzo.

I'm having annoying problems with the hard drive with all the records I've left at home, but I'll try and upload Paradise Don't Come Cheap some time. I just did an Amazon search for it and it looks like it is out of print.

rayj wrote:Actually, does anyone remember that whole hip-hoppy scene back in the 90's...out of Texas, I believe...pretty much based on drinking codeine-laden cough syrup? LOADS of 'melting' pitch-shifter vocals, very cool and wacky. I only heard it on an NPR episode, and couldn't find a single album (the whole scene was mostly circulated home-brew cassette stuff). I'm kicking myself for not making more of an effort to get some product out of the few tracks I managed to hear. I can't even remember any names.

There is a decent article (a primer) about this very thing in the magazine, Wire - Dec. '06, called "Texan Hiphop." I had skipped over reading it until I saw your post.

JakinnGlenn-

That link by Richard above has some good resources on the deal...the Robert Davis Jr. site is great!

bassdriver wrote:alternative hip hop

Yes.

rayj wrote:Actually, does anyone remember that whole hip-hoppy scene back in the 90's...out of Texas, I believe...pretty much based on drinking codeine-laden cough syrup?

LEAN or SIZZIRUP. Cough syrup and either malt liquor or ghetto soda.

I just bought the new Sage Francis record "human the death dance". it's fuggin awesome!!!!!!