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madlee wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:Someone defend the way they treat women, let's hear it.

Although feminism has a long and complex genesis, Courtly Love comes from the muslims in Spain.

During the hey day in the islamic empire, especially in spain, women were treated very well and were often deferred to.

You really can't discuss religion without acknowledging it's connection to cultural and political power. If a society is in power, generally it's citizens are afforded a more liberal lifestyle. when that society is under threat or perceived threat, the right wing aspects of that society become dominant.

Christianity and Judaism have a very similar history in regards to beating up on women.

Again, for the 10th time I am not talking about HISTORY I am talking about 2007.
All religions are and have always been creepy and stupid and they've all had horrific crimes committed in their names, hell they've all SANCTIONED horrific and brutal crimes at some point or another.

Does the fact Christians burned witches at the stake at some point somehow make it less offensive for Muslims in Iran to hang a manic depressive 16 year old girl in the town square for being 'promiscuous' (being raped by a 45 year old man) in 2004?

I don't understand the argument you all make with 'well Christians aren't any better, they used to do this and that'
Yeah, and? Does that make it somehow ok for the Muslims to STILL be doing that shit in 2007 like it was the middle ages?
The Taliban would shoot women during halftime at their soccer games. Everyone would cheer and praise Allah.

I cannot think of anything more evil, just a scene of pure black dread and evil. I do not want that on my Earth. That should not be on my Earth.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen that sort of thing happen in a Christian country, Jewish country, etc country in a loooooong time...hell, I've never even seen Satanists do something like that.

Yes, we are supposed to be in flying cars by now, not arguing over whether or not cabbies can refuse to give rides to seeing-eye dogs...

Christians have killed Hindus and vice versa in the past 5 years in India. Christians and Muslims have fought gang-style battles in the Middle East. These have all happened ostensibly in the name of the purity of the respective religions, but like all religious conflicts, have had a struggle for political power at their root.

Tyranny is a political force that sometimes wears religious dress. In nations with more regressive and less developed political systems, that tyranny is going to take more obviously brutal forms. As political systems age and increase in sophisitication, the tyranny is ameliorated and/or occurs in more insidious and subtle forms. The violence becomes almost entirely economic and political rather than physical.

My views on religion aside,
some of what your describing Marsup
has little to do with religion

"Honor Killing" and the like is not about religion in a lot of cases.

An honor killing is a murder, nearly exclusively of a woman who has been perceived as having brought dishonor to her family. Such killings are typically perpetrated by the victim's own relatives and/or community and unlike a crime of passion or rage-induced killing, it is usually planned in advance.

In societies and cultures where they occur, such killings are often regarded as a "private matter" for the affected family alone, and courts rarely become involved or prosecute the perpetrators.

Honour killings have been continually mistaken to be a practice encouraged by Islam; this is due to the fact that honour killings are often perpetrated in Muslim-majority areas, especially in countries of the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East. However the Qur'an and the Hadith mention nothing about honour killings, and such murders are almost always associated with pre-Islamic cultural patterns in the societies which condone them. For example, while honour killing is widespread among rural Muslim tribes in Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, and various Arab countries, it is virtually unknown in the Muslim communities of Malaysia and Indonesia.


I'm not saying this to defend religion,
but what your talking about
and possibly that picture your showing
may have nothing to do with the religion

Do the Qur'an and Hadith mention anything about refusing to give rides to dogs or people with a bottle of duty-free booze? Cause folks calling themselves Muslims in my neighborhood have been convinced to organize around this issue for 'religious' reasons.

fedaykin13 wrote:My views on religion aside,
some of what your describing Marsup
has little to do with religion

In terms of the number of people executed by the state in 2004, Iran is estimated to be second only to China.

In the year of Atefah's death, at least 159 people were executed in accordance with the Islamic law of the country, based on the Sharia code.

Since the revolution, Sharia law has been Iran's highest legal authority.

Alongside murder and drug smuggling, sex outside marriage is also a capital crime.

As a signatory of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, Iran has promised not to execute anyone under the age of 18.

But the clerical courts do not answer to parliament. They abide by their religious supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, making it virtually impossible for human rights campaigners to call them to account.

How about we all agree that, in general, men and their man-made religions have a history of treating women like shit.

Marsupialized wrote:

fedaykin13 wrote:My views on religion aside,
some of what your describing Marsup
has little to do with religion

In terms of the number of people executed by the state in 2004, Iran is estimated to be second only to China.

In the year of Atefah's death, at least 159 people were executed in accordance with the Islamic law of the country, based on the Sharia code.

Since the revolution, Sharia law has been Iran's highest legal authority.

Alongside murder and drug smuggling, sex outside marriage is also a capital crime.

As a signatory of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, Iran has promised not to execute anyone under the age of 18.

But the clerical courts do not answer to parliament. They abide by their religious supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, making it virtually impossible for human rights campaigners to call them to account.

can you give me the source of that?
I'm not gonna go tit for tat with you
I'm just curious
I'm more than willing to admit if I'm wrong about something

fedaykin13 wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:

fedaykin13 wrote:My views on religion aside,
some of what your describing Marsup
has little to do with religion

In terms of the number of people executed by the state in 2004, Iran is estimated to be second only to China.

In the year of Atefah's death, at least 159 people were executed in accordance with the Islamic law of the country, based on the Sharia code.

Since the revolution, Sharia law has been Iran's highest legal authority.

Alongside murder and drug smuggling, sex outside marriage is also a capital crime.

As a signatory of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, Iran has promised not to execute anyone under the age of 18.

But the clerical courts do not answer to parliament. They abide by their religious supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, making it virtually impossible for human rights campaigners to call them to account.

can you give me the source of that?
I'm not gonna go tit for tat with you
I'm just curious
I'm more than willing to admit if I'm wrong about something

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5217424.stm

Marsupialized wrote:

fedaykin13 wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:

fedaykin13 wrote:My views on religion aside,
some of what your describing Marsup
has little to do with religion

In terms of the number of people executed by the state in 2004, Iran is estimated to be second only to China.

In the year of Atefah's death, at least 159 people were executed in accordance with the Islamic law of the country, based on the Sharia code.

Since the revolution, Sharia law has been Iran's highest legal authority.

Alongside murder and drug smuggling, sex outside marriage is also a capital crime.

As a signatory of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, Iran has promised not to execute anyone under the age of 18.

But the clerical courts do not answer to parliament. They abide by their religious supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, making it virtually impossible for human rights campaigners to call them to account.

can you give me the source of that?
I'm not gonna go tit for tat with you
I'm just curious
I'm more than willing to admit if I'm wrong about something

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5217424.stm

Sharia code and the religion of Islam are two different things.

whatever.
i can't read or research anymore
it just disgusts me

thanks for the link Marsup