I can't hear them well enough over the guitar, bass, and drums. Currently my vocals are going through a 200W keyboard amp that feeds back if you turn the volume past 3 1/2. The mic is approximately 6 feet from the amp, and there is no more room to move the mic further back so that I can turn the volume up.

We have a small (12 x 8 or so) room to rehearse in and I have to hear my vocals. I need advice on a low-cost PA setup so that I (and the others) can hear myself sing. (I know nothing about PA setups.) Either that, or advice on how to make our current setup work better.

maybe facing the amp away from the mic, towards a reflective wall will enable you to turn the volume up more without feedback? (sure, you'd hear the reflection, but if the sound is going in the direction of the mic instead of opposite to it, then you're less likely to get feedback, right?)

though i'm not certain that what i said specifically will work, it seems like you could work with the room accoustics to figure out a free-er way to cut the feedback than buying a PA (which, when i think about it more, doesn't seem like it would quite solve the problem (you're getting feedback cause the mic is picking up sound from the amp, if it's picking up sound from the PA, then it's still going to feedback, right?)). so i guess my advice is to experiment with angling your amp(s) in different ways. you may not necessarily have to have the microphone that far back if it's angled in the right direction away from the amp..

someone here is bound to recommend some form of in-ear-monitor as well.. i'll leave that to them as i have no experience with them.

good luck.

you can find some deals on ebay, if you're into that.

i got a 70's Traynor 6-channel PA (with built-in spring reverb!) with four speaker cabinets, each speaker cab has 4 x 8" drivers in it, for something crazy like $130... i can't even hook all four speakers up to the thing at once unless i rig something up, since it only has 2 outputs and all four cabinets would be a ridiculously low impedance if hooked up at the same time...

anyways, for about $130 i got a great old PA that can get plenty loud, and more speakers than i can use. while there are actually no traynor PA's on ebay right now, this is odd... there are usually anywhere from one to three on any given day.

i don't know all the electronicity behind it, but i've been told that the gain structure in PA's is different from the gain structure in guitar amps or keyboard amps. i dunno. the PA i have has a series of switches to engage notch filters to fight feedback at specific frequencies. so that's nice.

if your amp has a seperate gain and master volume, or volume and master volume, you will likely want the master volume on FULL and the gain or other volume as high as you can get it before feedback.

what kind of mic are you using for vocals? hopefully it's a hypercardioid/supercardoid or something like that.

try aiming the mic a little bit up or down toward the ceiling or floor. sometimes that will get a little extra volume before feedback sets in.

if you're not doing this already, make sure your vocal mic is pointed pretty much directly AWAY from the speaker.

sing louder.

i'm assuming you're not using a mic preamp, right? so you're plugging a microphone-level signal into an amp that's looking for a line-level signal. that's part of the issue. without getting into impedance too much, i can say that i think you might be able to get more volume before feedback if you used a microphone preamp to boost your mic output up to line level. not sure, as i haven't tried it.

here's some ended auctions for Traynor PA's that seem like they might fit your bill..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 25513&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 84829&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 57191&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 48621&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 04166&rd=1

this one, the auction title claims it to be tube, which i think is incorrect...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 78915&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 93016&rd=1

none of these are for the model that i have, but you can get a sense of how cheap they typically sell for. some are more questionable than others, but if i had to pick between the fender PA they sell at guitar center and one of these, well...

you'd also need speakers. here's a pair like the four i got

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 14866&rd=1

and these were priced way too high and as such didn't sell. that seems to happen a lot with these speakers. people don't want to sell them as cheap as people want to buy them for. like i say, i got four of these plus the mixer for around $130.

deals are out there if you have the time to watch and wait.

Before you buy a PA make sure you have the right connections. There is a difference between High Z and Low Z inputs. A dynamic cardiod patterned mic should do. Make sure your Eq is flat. Yes the singer in my band uses "in ears" but the rest of us have floor monitors. With a personal in ear monitor you could have both too, it really helps.

bassovado wrote:Make sure your Eq is flat.

huh?

I've seen a lot of bands that use amps for vocals boost the mids or highs to be louder. This usually results in more feedback.

in a live sound setting, the EQ should be set to flat, but then used to cut the problematic frequencies, to kill off the first couple dominant feedback problem frequencies. yeah, boosting is probably not so good. but cutting is useful. with a 1/3 octave graphic EQ, especially.

Good luck finding that option on a keyboard amp. Just sayin is all..

good advice so far.

a lot can be done with speaker placement too. so much of this stuff is case-by-case basis though... you can get more powered stuff... or a better mic w/a hypercariod pattern and higher output (those ev N/d mics, pr shuire beta series) or insert a graphic eq and tune the space... or compressor... or change room configuration... it's a complex system where each piece influences each other, including the room you're in. it's pretty hard to give blanket advice over the internet on.

this is all assuming you already know the obvious, that the null of the mic should be facing the speaker - the speaker should not be behind you... either position the speaker like a floor wedge angled up, or get it on stands or something else head high facing you.

hope that helps some - good luck.