I know there was a small discussion on musician unions awhile back, but no C/NC.

Crap. I'm goth. We didn't have labor unions back then, and we sure don't need them today. We had prototypical guilds, so I can only condone such organizations...

In theory, absolute not crap.
In practice usually not crap.

The doctrine of employment at-will is truly a bastard.

Considering all of us are riding on the back of battles unions fought in the past, not crap.

NOT CRAP.

zero

The Kid wrote:The doctrine of employment at-will is truly a bastard.

Welcome to Idaho, The Kid.

To state the obvious simply, labor unions are responsible for many, if not all, of the great employment benefits that many people enjoy today. A lot of people fought very hard and sometimes died (usually at the hand of Henry Ford's goons) to secure these rights. This, to me, is so beautiful and sad and in no way CRAP.

Are labor unions corrupt and inefficient? Yes. If I was in a union, would I trade that union membership for a slightly higher paying job in an employment at-will state? Yes, if I was clinically insane.

Salut, unions. But you should have struck for your air traffic controlling brethren!

Alright... What is this employment at-will thing you are speaking about?

sunlore wrote:Alright... What is this employment at-will thing you are speaking about?

Without a contract, you are working "at the will" of your employer. Your employer can fire you at any time for any reason (usually except race, sex, etc.), or for no reason at all.

I was a member of UFCW (united food & commercial workers) for a good five years and it was nothing but crap. An old girlfriend's dad was in UAW and it seemed ridiculous and corrupt. One big reason American cars are crap and cost more than they should.

Unions of yesteryear: Awesome and I'm thankful for all that was sacrificed.

Unions today: Corrupt crap. They've become what they fought so hard against back in the day. Not needed except for giant whore companies like WalMart.

I gotta abstain.

Major Major wrote:Unions of yesteryear: Awesome and I'm thankful for all that was sacrificed.

Unions today: Corrupt crap. They've become what they fought so hard against back in the day. Not needed except for giant whore companies like WalMart.

Unions now are probably less corrupt than at any point in American history. They don't have the political influence to get away with wide scale corruption, nor can they afford the bad publicity that comes with federal prosecution. If there was widespread corruption, American unions would be swimming in federal prosecutors. That's how it works when the entire federal government, including the labor department and the NLRB, is vehemently anti-union. If corporate America was held to the same accounting standards that American unions are held to, which are very strict, Tyco/Adelphia/Enron/Worldcom et.al. might not have happened. So don't give me this corporate bullshit about unions being corrupt. Stupid, inefficient, lacking in long-term strategy -- okay. But corruption is not the problem.

I've worked many jobs where, if there were a union, I probably would have had health coverage, a right to a hearing upon termination, maybe even a defined benefit pension. I certainly would have had higher wages, and my co-workers and I would have had an opportunity to bargain over the conditions of employment. Without a union, I had none of thosethings. None of those jobs were at wal-mart.
I'm not sure what's so complicated about this.