...A representation of the failure of government to act in a timely manner to help its citizens.

Although no one seems to be in a hurry to attack the local or state government, who really dropped the ball in this instance.

Kayne West was not eloquent, but I still think he got his message across.

Jesse Jackson is an opourtunist idiot.

Two cops already committed suicide, which is tragic, unless they were stealing TV's instead of helping people- blast away, if that's the case.

greg wrote:

This situation seems to me like a car accident where a woman with a possible neck injury is trapped in a burning vehicle. You’d take the risk of making things worse (for her injury) and pull her out if the burning car right? Or do you wait until the ambulance shows up too late and complain about it.

There are "Good Samaritan" laws that would protect well meaning folks from a situation like this. Treatment to level of training is usually the rule, and it's hard to believe that a guy with a cooler full of sandwiches could fuck up the works, but it's true.

I'm sure the worst "Job" down there would be a triage nurse. I would not want to be put in that kind of position for anything.

i want to hope that kanye, not being smooth, not being bling, not being media-presentable, will mean something to the kids that are 15 or 16 and look up to him the way we looked up to black flag or whitehouse or whitesnake or what have you. to see a cat that's always been scripted, that 's always been photogenic, not be scripted or photogenic may have some effect on the folks that may be voting in 2008. i am not an optimist. but it would be nice. and it's reassuring to see some genuine emotion instead of just another teleprompter kiss n greet.

greg wrote:
This situation seems to me like a car accident where a woman with a possible neck injury is trapped in a burning vehicle. You’d take the risk of making things worse (for her injury) and pull her out if the burning car right? Or do you wait until the ambulance shows up too late and complain about it.
I could be wrong. Maybe we’ll find out that tens of thousands were saved by crafty citizens finding a way. Maybe I spoke too soon.

The situation you describe is much more straightforward than the issue of whether or not average citizens should rush into New Orleans to help.
Just looking at the difficulties that (more or less) trained and organized agencies have had getting people out of there, I find it very hard to believe that untrained and unorganized people would do any better. I think they would only add to the problem and become more people in need of rescue. As far as I can tell, many of the highways there are submerged in spots. People without communication equipment are not going to know where to drive. Much of the city is impassable by ground vehicles. So I'm still unclear how Average Joe is going to be rescuing people from rooftops. And I don't think there are too many average citizens with private helicopters equipped for rescue operations.
Can Average Joe provide assistance and aid once people have been removed from the flooded city? Absolutely.
Does he have any business driving his blazer into that city? No.
People aren't stranded because their car won't start. They're stranded because the water is up to their rooftops.
The fact is that there aren't many people capable of doing anything to remedy a situation like that, unlike the trapped woman/burning car analogy, in which the victim can be rescued by anybody with two arms and a conscience.
[/i]

Just looking at the difficulties that (more or less) trained and organized agencies have had getting people out of there, I find it very hard to believe that untrained and unorganized people would do any better.

I would think it almost impossible to do better. That is not my point.
I'm not suggesting at all that untrained and unorganized people should replace the professionals. I'm saying they would be better than nothing. As was the case for several days.

[/quote]

There is a time and a place for comments and political statements like that- this was not one of them. I find it totally disrespectful and a selfish act. While I agree that Bush is a facist bastard, I doubt he "hates" blacks. Annoyed by them- probably, but it's kind of baseless to make a statement like that. The local, state, and federal governments were almost criminal in their lack of preparation and response, but that is another matter. Sending troops to shoot black people...what's up with that? Did I miss something? I don't hold his lack of smooth delivery against him, only the foolishness of what he said.

sunset_gun wrote:While I agree that Bush is a facist bastard, I doubt he "hates" blacks.

not what he said

he said george bush doesn't care about black people

while not literally true, i think there is a grain of truth in what he said. george bush doesn't care about the poor in a political sense. and the poor are disproportionally black.

Sending troops to shoot black people...what's up with that? Did I miss something? I don't hold his lack of smooth delivery against him, only the foolishness of what he said.

the notion that one must first secure the city and then engage in search and rescue is ridiculous

one doesn't come before the other. two different groups of people do each job.

but shooting people (securing the city) became the priority, since they had guns on the scene before food and water. i think west was commenting on the focus of the authorities on looters etc. at a time when people are dying from exposure and thirst.

i thought his rant was semi-articulate and scattered and not entirely accurate, but i'm glad he said it

aaron neville's version of 'louisiana 1927' (to a backing tape, no less) was a much more eloquent, devastating commentary on the situation. but not too many people are talking about that.

tmidgett wrote:

sunset_gun wrote:While I agree that Bush is a facist bastard, I doubt he "hates" blacks.

not what he said

he said george bush doesn't care about black people

while not literally true, i think there is a grain of truth in what he said. george bush doesn't care about the poor in a political sense. and the poor are disproportionally black.

Ha, ha! What a fool I am! My apologies, I was responding to another post on a different board...doah! He indeed did not say Bush hated Blacks...and I agree with you- Bush seemingly DOESN'T care about the poor in a political sense...and the poor are disproportionally black. I still stand by the inappropriateness of his tirade. He is there to raise money- and raise as much as possible. To alienate potential donors with his comments is out of line and a selfish act- no class there. While I agree with his basic idea- the time and place which it was delivered made it lose all power and meaning in my eyes.

I heard a report that prison inmates housed at the Super Dome had escaped and were possibly the ones shotting at police. Has anyones else ?

I still stand by the inappropriateness of his tirade. He is there to raise money- and raise as much as possible.

i honestly believe that raising the consciousness of the audience is as important as raising money. truth be told, eventually there will be enough money raised for the red cross, via the congress, personal donations, billionaires giving money, other countries donating funds, etc... mike myers and kanye west are not going to make as big of an impact on the money raised as kanye west has, by saying what he did. here we all are discussing it.
i have a hard time understanding how you believe his comments were "inappropriate." is it really ridiculous that a black man could be personally offended by seeing thousands of black americans stranded on a highway on-ramp and left for 4 days without food or water? if not, then it is appropriate.
if you can not give him a break, at least acknowledge that it may not be for you to understand and then give him a break.

Slaves were bought/sold/traded as objects to be used. They were packaged as one would package cargo to be shipped.
They weren't even considered equal to humans.
New Orleans is suffering. Badly suffering. A deplorable state of affairs. A representation of the failure of government to act in a timely manner to help its citizens.
But this is not slavery.

it is about perception and cultural humiliation. no reason to explain why it is literally not the same thing. i think jesse jackson understands the literal difference.

how can anyone have a problem with black americans being really offended, really pissed off and voicing it.
maybe, just maybe, white americans will realize that they were given a different deck of cards and they should be really grateful.
i am lucky that i was raised in a unique environment that allowed me to see that i had hope where most of my community, who were black, did not. we were all poor, but there was a world of successful people on television that i could look to for inspiration. my best friend shinda looked at the jefferson's and later the cosby's.
oh yeah, then there was always basketball...
if you are a white american you will never know. and if you grew up around few black people then the only way you will have an idea is to work or participate in their environment.

and maybe, just maybe, if enough people "rant", the federal government will be held accountable for this huge fuck-up. people died terribly after the hurricane, because the federal government was not there. women were raped because the federal government was not there. that is their job. they get paid lots of money to do that job. it is a huge responsiblity for them, individually, to have on their shoulders, and that is why i do not work for fema.

if you are a doctor and you accidentally fuck-up and kill someone you shouldn't be a doctor anymore. that's why i am not a doctor and i don't make a shit-load of money for the risk.

everyone at the top of fema should be fired. bush should have been there immediately. the NATIONAL SECURITY advisor should have been there immediately. this is an embarrassment and if those of us who did not vote for bush give him a pass on this, then we deserve what we get. we are not victims we are voters.

can you hear the national anthem playing behind me? sorry it got a bit weird at the end.

most of all i just want people to consider laying off anyone who takes it personally. there is some real reason they feel that way and maybe your life experience doesn't allow you to understand. they are not crazy people. they are grown adults whose life experience has led them to those conclusions and deeply held feelings. just because you don't have those feelings doesn't mean they are not right. you may be wrong.
also, let those people left there loot in an orderly fashion. all of that shit is insured. and any place like walmart will throw everything that is left out, in case of water damage. fuck it! let them have it!

hey by the way, if you are looking for a great independent, extremely-competent charity to give to i recommend musicmaker.org!

heather wrote: i honestly believe that raising the consciousness of the audience is as important as raising money. truth be told, eventually there will be enough money raised for the red cross, via the congress, personal donations, billionaires giving money, other countries donating funds, etc... mike myers and kanye west are not going to make as big of an impact on the money raised as kanye west has, by saying what he did. here we all are discussing it.

People will STILL loose out. There is no way everyone will be compensated for everything they have lost. Every dollar counts as far as I'm concerned- no matter where it comes from.

heather wrote: i have a hard time understanding how you believe his comments were "inappropriate." is it really ridiculous that a black man could be personally offended by seeing thousands of black americans stranded on a highway on-ramp and left for 4 days without food or water? if not, then it is appropriate.
if you can not give him a break, at least acknowledge that it may not be for you to understand and then give him a break.

I totally understand Black frustration and angst. If I were Black, I'd probably be militant as all fuck, but you have to use your brain and use these kind of statements for maximum efficiency and punch. Kanye has access to the media pretty much when ever he wants at this point. It's not like this was his only opportunity to reach and audience. I just feel he should have put his agenda aside and concentrated on raising as much money as possible.

It is pretty narrow minded to push off all the responsibility and lack of governmental action on GWB (yes, I know he vetoed some program for levee control or something). EVERYONE fucked up- local, state, and federal governments. I don't like Bush either, but to blame him for everything makes us look like vindictive children, and that we will never be satisfied. Choose your battles, zero in on what is really his fault (there is no shortage), and exploit that. In short, use your head (no offense meant).

the kid wrote:

I find it very hard to believe that untrained and unorganized people would do any better.

Sean Penn's rescue bid sinks
From correspondents in New Orleans
05sep05

EFFORTS by Hollywood actor Sean Penn to aid New Orleans victims stranded by Hurricane Katrina foundered badly overnight, when the boat he was piloting to launch a rescue attempt sprang a leak.

Penn had planned to rescue children waylaid by Katrina's flood waters, but apparently forgot to plug a hole in the bottom of the vessel, which began taking water within seconds of its launch.
The actor, known for his political activism, was seen wearing what appeared to be a white flak jacket and frantically bailing water out of the sinking vessel with a red plastic cup.

When the boat's motor failed to start, those aboard were forced to use paddles to propel themselves down the flooded New Orleans street.

Asked what he had hoped to achieve in the waterlogged city, the actor replied: "Whatever I can do to help."

With the boat loaded with members of Penn's entourage, including a personal photographer, one bystander taunted the actor: "How are you going to get any people in there?"