heather, i find your posts very rewarding reads. the idea of "say what you mean" is one of my favorites.

i apologize for how disjointed this post is. it's just my thoughts on this series of events and related subjects.

FEMA is a weird organization. because they are designed to deal with terror-type scenarios, we as americans will never know what that organization is really designed to do and what they are taught. as soon as they give up that information, they give "the terrorists" the ability to retool their attack strategies. so what does FEMA really do, what are they taught to do? we will never know. but i think for anybody to expect that FEMA concentrates on helping the masses more than they concentrate on protecting *strategic* things/people, i would say that's idealistic in a beautiful way, and is unlikely to ever be the American reality.

i think there's systemic racism built into this country, hardcore. i don't doubt that the way conversations go behind giant, beautiful, expensive-wood closed doors is a lot more dark and racist than what politicians will say on teevee.

i think the fact that bush made an address where one of the first things he did, after naming all the people he'd like to thank, was to joke about partying and hanging out at trent lott's place, well that's truly amazing. literally, it amazed me. the smirking he did in a previous address, that wasn't shocking, but was definitely rage-inspring. but to laugh and smile and joke about how he's partied in the affected area? that was mindboggling.

my prediction: this problem will not be fixed. this situation will not change. it is inherent in a capitalist system. our democracy is a joke, people aren't even close to being "equal" or starting off equal or whatever democracy might suggest. however things may have been at points past, this country is not set up to protect the huddled masses from jack shit.

something to consider, that may come as news to some of us in all this, is the role that this country's abundance of guns will play in times of disaster. if there are guns around, and times are really rough, some part of this country could turn into the freakin Road Warrior in a short period of time. people "looted" gun shops, didn't they? i saw a news bit anyway about how people were arming themselves and banding together to protect themselves from the people who had armed themselves by looting gun shops. i think this is something the federal government was worried about, moreso than people starving or suffering from lack of water. i heard reports of FEMA folks taking sniper fire. it only makes sense that if you felt like you were really fucked, you'd shoot the guy with the great transportation which likely has food and water inside it.

i also believe that the top folks of the federal administration view this "slave ship" situation as much more of a P.R. situation than they actually care about poor black southerners dying.

i had the pleasure of attending the church John Ashcroft attends (we even saw him there) while i was living in DC. it was much more like a training seminar, with fancily dressed 30-somethings taking notes on legal pads. i shit you not. it's one of the weirdest churches i've ever been to. it really didn't feel like they gave a shit about the non-elite.

i haven't been following the coverage closely, at all really, but i am surprised i haven't been hearing the words "cholera" or "dyssentary" thrown about all over the place.

i haven't heard a recent death-toll, though i expect it will outweigh that of September 11th by quite a bit. i would be shocked if the federal government gives a fraction of a shit about the loss of 10,000 lives (a guess) compared to the impact on the oil market and the cost of reparation of infrastructure vital to commerce. *shocked*.

i'm glad Kanye West spoke his mind. it sets a great precedent. i hope more people speak their minds like he has.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:FEMA is a weird organization. because they are designed to deal with terror-type scenarios, we as americans will never know what that organization is really designed to do and what they are taught.

I just thought I'd point something out about the above statement that is incorrect. FEMA was not created for the simple purpose of dealing with terrorist attacks, it was created in 1979 by an executive order made by then Presient Carter. FEMA at that time was created as a government agency to centralize the task of dealing with the federal response to any disasters be they the byproduct of natural disasters or civil defense emergencies. In that timespan most of FEMA's actions dealt with domestic natural disasters like hurricanes, so you'd think as an agency they'd be pretty adept at dealing with these scenarios since there's been how many hurricanes that have hit the continental United States since 1979?

toomanyhelicopters wrote:heather, i find your posts very rewarding reads. .

toomanyhelicopters, I find your posts to be rambling and incoherent.

yokophono wrote:

toomanyhelicopters wrote:FEMA is a weird organization. because they are designed to deal with terror-type scenarios, we as americans will never know what that organization is really designed to do and what they are taught.

I just thought I'd point something out about the above statement that is incorrect. FEMA was not created for the simple purpose of dealing with terrorist attacks, it was created in 1979 by an executive order made by then Presient Carter. FEMA at that time was created as a government agency to centralize the task of dealing with the federal response to any disasters be they the byproduct of natural disasters or civil defense emergencies. In that timespan most of FEMA's actions dealt with domestic natural disasters like hurricanes, so you'd think as an agency they'd be pretty adept at dealing with these scenarios since there's been how many hurricanes that have hit the continental United States since 1979?

i'm sorry, i didn't mean to imply that FEMA was *initially created* to function in the context i described. that would've been a much tougher sell to the public, i think, that some large amount of money was going to be spent to create an organization that protects the government from the people. that would never be an easy sell, in any time period. i meant to describe the realm in which they exist today, what they've been shaped into by how many years of belonging to the dubya.

i also didn't mean to imply that i have any specific citeable information about what FEMA is used for these days. i've only heard rumor and conjecture, which oddly this recent event would seem to support more than refute. like the point you raise (as i interpreted it anyways) that after all their decades of experience, you'd expect them to be totally ready to go for something like this. i wouldn't be surprised if they had been concentrating almost exclusively, if not exclusively, on preparing to defend strategic resources and people from human aggressors, preparing to secure a target and then supply it with vital resources like food and water... a specific target, be it a person or a "compound" or a "base" or the like.

according to some searching on the internet, the head of FEMA reports directly to the President. directly to the President.

this came up as the first hit in a google search for "FEMA reports to". interesting. O Canada, why can't you be 10 or 20 degrees warmer!

Marsupialized wrote:

toomanyhelicopters wrote:heather, i find your posts very rewarding reads. .

toomanyhelicopters, I find your posts to be rambling and incoherent.

Y'all just mad. Because tonight, you suckas got served.

horsewhip wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:

toomanyhelicopters wrote:heather, i find your posts very rewarding reads. .

toomanyhelicopters, I find your posts to be rambling and incoherent.

Y'all just mad. Because tonight, you suckas got served.

Don't lump me in with any of these suckas you speak of, I have yet to be served anything.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:according to some searching on the internet, the head of FEMA reports directly to the President. directly to the President.

not anymore. not anymore. fema reports to the secretary of homeland security.
http://www.fema.gov/

some people think fema should go back to the cabinet level (where they were pre-2001), but it remains to be seen whether that would actually allay the bureaucrazy or just muddy the situation even more. i think it's more important to have a fema director that is close to the president and can get the resources he wants. i don't really care what his rank is.

The right wing spin machine has started an immense campaign of ensuring that the only blame for the catastrophically bad response to the hurricane falls only on the state and local authorities. They are doing this on TV, radio and online.

Their talking points echo sunset_gun's sentiments almost exactly.

I find it utterly disgusting and abhorrent.

However, the majority of this country (and the world) watched TV for 4 days while people died needlessly as the federal government failed in its responsibilities in the most awful and devasting way imaginable.

That's not an easy memory to spin away.

stewie wrote:The right wing spin machine has started an immense campaign of ensuring that the only blame for the catastrophically bad response to the hurricane falls only on the state and local authorities. They are doing this on TV, radio and online.

Their talking points echo sunset_gun's sentiments almost exactly.

I find it utterly disgusting and abhorrent.

However, the majority of this country (and the world) watched TV for 4 days while people died needlessly as the federal government failed in its responsibilities in the most awful and devasting way imaginable.

That's not an easy memory to spin away.

Did I say the full responsibility fell solely on the Stat and local governements? In case you don't want to reread what I have already written I will tell I have not. People seem to be focusing on the Federal Government's failures and ignoring all other outlets. I really don't have time (or desire) in my life to watch much TV at all. The left and the right both have their spin...AND IT'S ALL A JOKE. It's all just a game anyway, don't you see? They all just play sides. Play on the left...they are just as fucked as the right. Have fun playing your little game.

i haven't read through this entire thread yet, but i'd like to suggest that kanye west, though ill-spoken, was not THAT far off when he said that president bush doesn't care about black people.

the truth of the matter is george w. bush does not care about poor people-- or more specifically, anyone other than... <i>his people</i>.

cheney, ashcroft, rove. our country is run by old, dirty men building their estates off of an old, dirty fuel. who was able to leave new orleans? people who could afford plane tickets. people with s.u.v.'s filling their cars to the brim and singly handedly raising gas prices. there was no mass-evacuation via public transportation. the entire scenario was predicted years before. the infirm were left behind. the poor were left behind. the white house's agenda (whether republicrat or democran) does not care about the poor. boston's been given billions of dollars for the endless big dig whist the most culturally rich yet fiscally destitute city in america was destroyed by improper (or faulty) levees. boston's pockets are deeper than new orleans'. simply, the saftey of a city was overlooked.

at least kayne west's "speech" was passionately ineloquent while any of george bush's over the past five years have been severely detached and ineloquent.

anyone know how piety street studios is? is there an ssl underwater somewhere in new orleans?