I got to thinking about this after seeing all the Back to Black Amy Winehouse film posters in London.

She was awful. Horrible gurning voice, Ronettes Cosplay look. The songs were retro schlock.

Massively overrated .

Keep it big. What things has The Collective decided are cultural touchstones but are actually bullshit?

I could understand why everybody liked her, but for me it was sort of a meh. It wasn't that bad of a mainstream pop star to have considering all things but I wasn't interested at all.

Similar thing I feel for Billie Eilish, though I think she is kinda "nicer" as a a human being.

I struggle with how to objectively evaluate a cultural institution as monolithic as Beyonce. It almost feels like there is a message that if you don't back Queen B you are a horrible, racist, incel who wants to oppress women. If you're on the good team you love her, shut up and give her new album a glowing review.

At the end of the day this perception, real or otherwise shouldn't be a reason to love or hate her music. It makes me suspicious that her detractors are letting it blind them to her greatness while her cult misses her albums' shortcomings.

I admire hard workin' people and surely that Beyonce dudess is one.

But I'd never listen to that CRAP music of hers.

losthighway wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 10:33 am I struggle with how to objectively evaluate a cultural institution as monolithic as Beyonce.

I got you, fam. Billionaires, black or white, should not be creating music. One good song, she has one good song - "Love on Top."

Next year she'll have a diamond encrusted folding table for her harsh noise phase.

rsmurphy wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:58 amBillionaires, black or white, should not be creating music.

That

rsmurphy wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:58 amNext year she'll have a diamond encrusted folding table for her harsh noise phase.

Hahaha I laugh, how funny would that be, and then I remember Grimes exists.


Overrated:

Ozzy
Dylan
Bowie
strip clubs
weed pens
AR-15 rifles

losthighway wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 10:33 am I struggle with how to objectively evaluate a cultural institution as monolithic as Beyonce. It almost feels like there is a message that if you don't back Queen B you are a horrible, racist, incel who wants to oppress women. If you're on the good team you love her, shut up and give her new album a glowing review.

At the end of the day this perception, real or otherwise shouldn't be a reason to love or hate her music. It makes me suspicious that her detractors are letting it blind them to her greatness while her cult misses her albums' shortcomings.

I think that the popularity of Beyonce, Taylor Swift, and other performers who operate on that scale has a lot in common with things like professional and college sports in that many people seem to enjoy being fans of it in company with others as much as they enjoy the thing itself. It's fun to get excited about things. I don't find that to be wrong exactly -- communal experiences are important-- but it feels to me like a odd way to engage with music. That said, I've certainly gone to concerts (and baseball games, etc) because friends were really excited about whatever it was and I wanted to socialize.

LuciousSandwich wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 2:17 pm I think that the popularity of Beyonce, Taylor Swift, and other performers who operate on that scale has a lot in common with things like professional and college sports in that many people seem to enjoy being fans of it in company with others as much as they enjoy the thing itself. It's fun to get excited about things. I don't find that to be wrong exactly -- communal experiences are important-- but it feels to me like a odd way to engage with music. That said, I've certainly gone to concerts (and baseball games, etc) because friends were really excited about whatever it was and I wanted to socialize.

Some of that, sure, and folded into that are the many thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of IG and TikToK posts that went up during and shortly after, which is, now, probably part of the communal thing you write about above.

zircona1 wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:00 am

enframed wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:49 am Identikit, aka, The Driver's Seat, starring Elizabeth Taylor.

Oh. So Radiohead didn't make that word up.

I wonder if most of their good ideas weren't borrowed/stolen.

I think identikit is an anglicism we call police sketches in the U.S. Burning Airlines also used the term for their first album. Easy to imagine a rock song or a noir movie called Mugshot, but I digress.